Graybeard Outdoors banner
1 - 20 of 413 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,405 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
One of my biggest complaints--not only here--is the way folks think that God is human and reacts like a human and has needs like humans.
One of these is that when we die from this earth and go to heaven is that we will be as we are here.
I just don't agree.
Before there was ANYTHING there was God.
God was not/is not sustained in life by oxygen. He has no need for it. Man was created in a form that requires oxygen--but in another dimension--life will be sustained by God.
This world will not be remembered or the cares of it, so revelations proclames.
Our thinking needs not center on this life but one His life.
Blessings
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,335 Posts
Haven't you ever read in revelation about the new Jerusalem coming down to earth and the nations coming to Christ there......? Where do you think that will be? Out in space somewhere or where scripture puts it right where Jerusalem is now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,977 Posts
It's isn't a bad thing to consider.
Pastorp has a good point. Also, Christ, after the resurrection was different. He came into the room where the disciples were without using a door yet they touched him and felt his form. Thomas touched the side where the spear pierced him. He ate with the preparing fish on the shore. Yet, that same body ascended on the mount.

When the three disciples ascended they went up the mountain with Christ, still in this world, and saw Moses and Elijah. Christ conversed with the two concerning his death. They came down in form and function in which they had existed here.

Those are a few examples that we can refer to. There is undoubtedly a good deal that we don't understand but the there is the obvious of what we have been shown. There is tension there because we don't have full knowledge and revelation of the what why where and when. We do have this promise. God has give us. Everything that we need in his word for Godliness and Holiness.

lc
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,405 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
If it is a new earth--where is the old earth ? Are you saying it will orbit the sun ? Why will there be no darkness ? Why will fruit be produced year around ? Why will there be no remembrance of the cares of THIS world ?
Blessings
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,172 Posts
williamlayton said:
One of my biggest complaints--not only here--is the way folks think that God is human and reacts like a human and has needs like humans.
One of these is that when we die from this earth and go to heaven is that we will be as we are here.
I just don't agree.
Is it already time to do this one again?

The reason you don't agree with so many people is, you're wrong.

First, NO ONE says, "when we die we ... go to heaven ... as we are here." What we do say is when we are raptured/resurrected [or translated] we will be as we are now but without the imperfections - you may notice that hasn't happened yet. TRY to understand that THIS is not the eternal earth and the present heaven is not the eternal heaven and the present saints in heaven don't yet have their eternal bodies.

Second, no one but you says, "God is human" or has "needs" but He does have desires and one of them is to be closer to his creations.

Third, we are specifically told God will make a new Jerusalem which will descent to the newly reworked earth where He will dwell with us just He has always said: ( Rev 21:3) And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle [dwelling place] of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God. WE didn't say that, it's what He says so I believe we're on solid ground there. And consider that He says HE will dwell "with men", which means "MEN", not living rubber toys with the brains of six year olds.

You make too big an issue of "a new earth"; it will be a newly cleaned up earth with the present upper level burned away somewhat like the surface was cleansed and then made 'new' after the flood. God made the earth and all that is in it and pronounced all of it 'good'; sin has contaminated both earth and man but God obviously hasn't rejected either one, it would be a victory for Satan if that happened but God will not grant him that victory! Instead, God plans to resurrect (restore) both earth and righteous men to His perfection once again, just as the flood story is meant to portray. Restored men will probably 'need' the same oxygen, water and nourishment that Adam needed but it's nothing to agonize over.

For the rest of it, you frequently ask unanswerable 'why this, why that' questions I'd expect from six year olds. Let me quote yourownself's frequent response; "God knows."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,670 Posts
pastorp said:
Haven't you ever read in revelation about the new Jerusalem coming down to earth and the nations coming to Christ there......? Where do you think that will be? Out in space somewhere or where scripture puts it right where Jerusalem is now.
I do wish you guys would say were in the book you are making reference to , sure would be easier for me . OK so I found were it talks about new Jerusalem coming down . why does the wall go up 1379 miles ? don't we have satellites lower than that ? :-\
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,670 Posts
wncchester said:
williamlayton said:
One of my biggest complaints--not only here--is the way folks think that God is human and reacts like a human and has needs like humans.
One of these is that when we die from this earth and go to heaven is that we will be as we are here.
I just don't agree.
Is it already time to do this one again?

The reason you don't agree with so many people is, you're wrong.

First, NO ONE says, "when we die we ... go to heaven ... as we are here." What we do say is when we are raptured/resurrected [or translated] we will be as we are now but without the imperfections - you may notice that hasn't happened yet. TRY to understand that THIS is not the eternal earth and the present heaven is not the eternal heaven and the present saints in heaven don't yet have their eternal bodies.

Second, no one but you says, "God is human" or has "needs" but He does have desires and one of them is to be closer to his creations.

Third, we are specifically told God will make a new Jerusalem which will descent to the newly reworked earth where He will dwell with us just He has always said: ( Rev 21:3) And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle [dwelling place] of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God. WE didn't say that, it's what He says so I believe we're on solid ground there. And consider that He says HE will dwell "with men", which means "MEN", not living rubber toys with the brains of six year olds.

You make too big an issue of "a new earth"; it will be a newly cleaned up earth with the present upper level burned away somewhat like the surface was cleansed and then made 'new' after the flood. God made the earth and all that is in it and pronounced all of it 'good'; sin has contaminated both earth and man but God obviously hasn't rejected either one, it would be a victory for Satan if that happened but God will not grant him that victory! Instead, God plans to resurrect (restore) both earth and righteous men to His perfection once again, just as the flood story is meant to portray. Restored men will probably 'need' the same oxygen, water and nourishment that Adam needed but it's nothing to agonize over.

For the rest of it, you frequently ask unanswerable 'why this, why that' questions I'd expect from six year olds. Let me quote yourownself's frequent response; "God knows."
why burn up the earth , what has it done ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,172 Posts
Billy - Yes, in heaven we will "know as we are known"; we can hardly know someone who is unknown.

See -- Matt 17:1-8, 22:31,32 1 Thess 2:19, 20 I Cor 13:12
================================================================

Swimmer - You're asking us to read the mind of God about some things he hasn't explained, we can only read what's in the Book. It says the world, as we now know it, will be destroyed by a fire so hot the elements will melt. The logical answer to why the earth will be burned over like that is to - basically - sterilize it from the deep contamination of sin, same as human hospital wastes from surgery are carefully burned.

2 Peter 3:10, 11 - But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.[/color]Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,…[/color]
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,845 Posts
williamlayton said:
I think that is the point WN. You can't know someone you don't know unless they give you the gift of knowing them.
Blessings
William is "humanizing" Heaven.😳🔫 👀
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,972 Posts
williamlayton said:
I think that is the point WN. You can't know someone you don't know unless they give you the gift of knowing them.
Blessings
Hmm, so you meet a stranger, get into an involved interview and learn by his words the gist of his beliefs on a subject or subjects but you cannot know what that person has told you, or you have seen unless God programs you to know it.

No wonder all the hype with the robots nowadays, they are trying to do with them what you say God does with us, brilliant.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,172 Posts
williamlayton said:
I think that is the point WN. You can't know someone you don't know unless they give you the gift of knowing them.
Blessings

There is no point to your point that makes sense. I already know my family and friends, I do know them quite well - and that IS the question of who we will know when we get to heaven, isn't it?

Bless your heart
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,740 Posts
We're exploring the question "Who is God?" in my chapel right now; my deputy and I are alternating the teaching, but working from the OT into the NT to see how He revealed Himself over our history. But the first thing we noticed in our preparations that really stood out was that we would not know anything about God unless He revealed it to us first. So the knowing of God begins with Him allowing Himself to be known. For a person who exists outside of creation, that's a really merciful act ... our finite created minds can only apprehend God, we cannot comprehend it. Visually I draw the infinity symbol and talk about that, and then draw a circle around it - the sharper folks immediately say, you can't do that! Why? Because infinity cannot be encircled, comprehended (in the greek and hebrew) ... you cannot wrap your brain around it (in the vernacular). God is infinite, we cannot wrap our brains around Him ... but we can know some things about Him, because He allows us to and reveals Himself to us.


I concur (I think) in spirit with WL's concern about the humanizing of God (otherwise known as anthropo-centered thinking about God). In essence it is placing infinity in the circle, but in order to do that, infinity has to give up its essential characteristic and become finite so it can fit in the circle. We do that to God when we reduce him to merely a really super human - we force him in idea to fit inside our own circle, so that we can comprehend him. By doing that we make him less than God, and make ourselves really God over Him, because our circle is larger than He is (or can be to fit in the circle).


We're only a few weeks into the study, but its clear from the responses of the congregation that we must constantly fight the urge to bring God down to our level, to humanize Him. He reveals himself in ways that appear human really out of his mercy for us, but the fact is he is so much more and beyond that, we do him a disservice to use those helping aids as some form of leash on him. Liberals do it when they use the love of God to make him conform to a human centered view of love. Conservatives do it when we use the holiness of God to make him conform to a human centered view of holy. God will not be constrained, cannot be comprehended - like a Father to a child, He may appear to be something familiar, but in reality he is quite a lot more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,972 Posts
TeamNelson said:
We're only a few weeks into the study, but its clear from the responses of the congregation that we must constantly fight the urge to bring God down to our level, to humanize Him. He reveals himself in ways that appear human really out of his mercy for us, but the fact is he is so much more and beyond that, we do him a disservice to use those helping aids as some form of leash on him. Liberals do it when they use the love of God to make him conform to a human centered view of love. Conservatives do it when we use the holiness of God to make him conform to a human centered view of holy. God will not be constrained, cannot be comprehended - like a Father to a child, He may appear to be something familiar, but in reality he is quite a lot more.
God created us.
Our thought process and the will that drives it, is what God gave us.

We are not humanizing God, we are spiritualizing ourselves to level of information and ability that GOD has bestowed us with.
The Apostles performed miracles, as humans by drawing on God.

We cannot comprehend the physical universe anymore than we can comprehend the spiritual world but we can take knowledge GOD gave us and use it to our best ability.
You are trying take the thought process GOD gave us and demonize it or make it into something wrong.

God gave us free will, as God gave Satan.
Man sadly is as fully capable of taking that asset and corrupting it as Satan.

There IS not humanizing GOD, there is creating a rhetoric on incomplete knowledge; that is being human and what Jesus as a human did NOT fall prey to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,335 Posts
Well said, TN,

I remember sitting in my fathers lap as a small child. I knew him in part as a child. But I was content sitting there just knowing I was safe and secure in his loving arms. I needed no more.

God likens us to his children. I don't need to know every facet about God my Heavenly Father. I'm content to know what he revealed to me about himself. God uses about the first 3 chapters of the bible to tell us who he is and how we came to be here. And all the rest of scripture to reveal his love & plan for redemption after men's fall.

But man wants to figure God out. And Billy's crying about others humanizing god is just another way to put him in a box. Odd how God fills the universe, but lives in my heart......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,740 Posts
Bob said:
You are trying take the thought process GOD gave us and demonize it or make it into something wrong.

I'm not demonizing God's gift to us of rationality at all, there is nothing wrong with the thought process. But we must recognize we only know in part, and we only know it because God gave it to us to be known. God gave us His Word and His spirit that we might know him more fully; he spoke through the prophets that we might know him. We did not discover God through our thought process. We did not deduce his existence and his will for us through rational process. He gave us what we know, and he only gave us some of what can be known, because he created us with a limited capacity to know Him.


What is knowable about God is far more than what we have been given, or even more than our finite minds can comprehend. At best we can apprehend God ... if you don't know the difference between apprehend and comprehend, I refer you to the illustration of the circle around the infinity symbol.
 
1 - 20 of 413 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top