Graybeard Outdoors banner

1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
It's used but nice. It's a .50 caliber and the twist rate appears to be the 1:66" type. This is my first BP rifle. The only other BP firearm I have is a repro 1858 Remington New Army. The main question I have about this rifle is the rear sight. It doesn't seem to me that the rear sight has much elevation adjustment to it or is it just my immagination? Also, what about pre-lubed patches? I bougth some made by Ox-Yoke for .50-.59 cal with a thickness of .015" and Hornady .490 lead balls to go with that. I'll be using only real black powder and for now I have Goex FFg. The percussion caps I have for it are CCI #11. Is all this good?
Also, where's a good place that sells BP stuff that has a website?
Thanks for any info.
JS :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
JS- Excellent choice, the GPR is without doubt the best deal going in a traditional BP rifle, actually looks like a real Plains rifle unlike just about all the other factory Hawken types, and your rifle will shoot better than just about all of them as well. Once you get some loads worked up you'll be shooting as well as any custom rifle. GOEX would be amongst my personal last choices of BP, but it's dramatically superior to Pyrodrek, clean or clear shot or any of the rest of that crap.
The Hornady balls are great and CCI caps are considered the best for
most, I'd also recommend getting some .495 balls they may be slightly more accurate, now or later on when your barrel has a little wear, as far
as the patches go it's not a bad idea to go to a fabric store and buy a yard each of 2 or 3 different thiknesses of pillow ticking tear them in strips slighly wider than your muzzle roll up the strips 1 in each thickness then saturate the roll in a good patch lube and put them in a plastic box margerins tub etc so they wont dry out or get contaminated with any abrasives then try the different thiknesses with different daimeter balls
once you've established some accurate powder levels, put the end of
one of the strips over the muzzle short start the ball with the nub on the short starter just enough so that it clears the muzzle the use a very sharp
small knife to slide accross the top of the muzzle and cut the patch be sure to align the material the same way every time, consistency is the key to fine accuracy in BP shooting, you'll have patches that are superior to the commercial ones if for no for other reason that they are perfectly centered every time which is darn difficult with the pre-cut ones, once you've determined the best combination of patch thickness and ball diameter go back and get a few yards of that particular ticking and you'll be saving a great deal of money over time and doing it the way that it was done back in the day, get or make a good patch lube the best IMHO
is LeHigh Valley Patch lube I get mine from Thunder Ridge
http://www.cap-n-ball.com/thunder/index.htm#mainmenu
also get some cider vinegar or non ammoniated glass cleaner, windshield
washer solution etc as a cleaning solvent and a load of cleaning patches
for cleaning the barrel after shooting these or even plain cold water are
pretty much superior to just about all the commercial ripoffs like T/C#13
which is 90% water and 10% silicone it's a lame patch lube and no better a solvent than plain water, get a bottle of rubbing alcohol to remove any residual moisture from your barrel after you're wet solvent patch and dry patch cleaning is over, and some quality oil like LPS II for regular between shoots barrel preservation and LPS III for protecting the barrel
between seasons. Don't fall for the bore butter bore seasoning thing it's BS the stuff is just basically lard with a chapstick like wax and the BP salt residues will hapilly rust the bore microscopically under that crap, lots of guys have been doing that for years and they'll show you thier shiny bore
but if you sectioned their barrels or looked in there with a real bore scope you'd see flake rust and pits in the pores, particularly if they're doing the bore seasoning thing with Pyrodrek. Same goes for the almost universally accepted practice of cleaning the barrel in hot water and detergent in a bucket it'll do the same thing, rust in the pores. Your barrel's accuracy potential will last several times longer cleaning and preserving it the way
I've described, and not only will the home made route actually work better but you can use all the money you've saved for buying new rifles, shooting more, going hunting etc, let all the anal retentive yuppie pidgeons get burned.
I'd also recommend getting a good stainless steel range rod with a brass or nylon centering button and use it, the rod that comes with the rifle is for hunting or decoration and will get coated with abrasive dust and screw up your muzzle crown in short order barrel steel is actually much softer
than most think. also get a breech scraper to remove the crud that builds up un the breech face, I think the GPR has a patent breech so get a .32 cal one to get down in that cavity and a .50 for the surroundding breech face area, also get a couple of steel shanked jags the brass shanked ones will bend or break easily.
If you've got a local shop that sells this stuff buy it there unless they're really pirates, as most of the skinflint types will perhaps get a LB of BP or some caps get all kinds of help from the guy and then mail order everything, the main reson there are so few BP oriented shops the price differential isn't much.

You can find tons of great information on this site and others like it, an excellent book I'd recommend is Sam Fadalla's Black Powder Loading manual.
You might also look into joining a BP shooting club in your area, as you can get a LB or 2 of BP for the wholesale price, and you'll learn a great deal as most BP shooters are happy to help a new guy and many of the clubs are older greybeards like myself and interested in new blood to keep things going, I shot BP off and on for over 20 years and then started shooting with a club and then learned more in 6 months than in the past 20 years. Don't be afraid to ask any question because you think you'll be thought of as an idiot, we all were newbie's and asked all kinds of dumb questions, or were actually too dumb to ask and did truly dumb stuff like
ruining barrels or even getting hurt. This time of year most of these sites
are quite dead so many of us appreciate seeing some traffic. Have fun shooting the GPR.
Regards fredj
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Lyman Great Plains

An excellent choice JS . And you've had some excellent advice . They are a fine , durable and accurate rifle. My stock split at one point and Lyman replaced it , good rifle and good people.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
your choice is a good. I have a .54 GPR and can say i have not had any problems with it. I have been shooting it for around 8 years and have never had any trouble from it that were the rifles fault, dry balls and such were my fault. you will enjoy the rifle im sure :) :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Lyman GPR

JS - Congratulations. I am in the final stages of building a GPR flintlock kit with the slow-twist barrel, and I agree with what others have said here. While not strictly authentic, my kit is well-made, especially where metal parts were inletted into the stock. The European walnut is nicely-grained and very hard, and the fit of metal to wood is as tight as can be. I'm building it in the shop of a guy who makes REALLY nice, authentic traditional longrifles, and even he occasionally admits he is impressed. I expect to enjoy using this rifle very much.

You might want to consider replacing your lock with an RPL Model 05-P from L&R (www.lr-rpl.com/rpltc.htm). I replaced mine with the Model 05 flint version, and when I put the two locks next to each other and compared the quality they're like night and day. The look, feel, strength, and speed are much better, and L&R's owner Bill Cox is a pleasure to do business with. You will need to gradually remove a little wood here and there inside the lock mortise to clear the different internal parts of the L&R (leaf springs instead of coil springs, etc.; instructions are included) and unless you're handy and have all the right tools it might be a good idea to get one of the old-timers at your muzzleloader club to help you with it. It's not a huge job, but you wouldn't want to mess up your stock, and this isn't something that any ol' gunsmith would know how to do well.

L&R also makes nice traditional-looking adjustable sights with plenty of vertical travel that you could put onto your GPR. Mine just needed a little file work and browning, and it fit right into the barrel dovetail.

Fredj is dead-on about the benefits of joining a muzzleloader club. My own experience completely supports what he said about the willingness of veteran shooters to help someone interested in traditional guns. My club, Land of the Senecas in south-central New York, is a fine example. Look at the NMLRA website (http://www.nmlra.org/charterclubs.htm) to find a club near you.

Fredj also refers to LPS II and LPS III. Those are actually LPS 2 and 3, a lubricant/protectant and a corrosion inhibitor (www.lpslabs.com/Products/ProductLine.asp). I am not familiar with them, but that doesn't mean anything.

Since you seem interested in an organized approach to shooting your muzzleloader well, take a look at the "Dutch Schoultz system" (http://members.primary.net/~dr5x/). The operative phrase here is "organized approach." Schoultz gives precise, step-by-step instructions on how to develop optimal accuracy with a muzzleloader, and explains the logic behind each detail. Helped me a lot.

I admit I've bought and read most if not all of Sam Fadala's books, and they do contain a lot of information, especially in the area of load data. However, the more I've read and learned elsewhere, the more I've seen how much of his writing is shallow, disorganized, and lacking in brevity. I am also suspicious of authors who illustrate their work with too many pictures of themselves - for example, page 323 of "The Complete Blackpowder Handbook, 4th Edition" shows ol' Sam stuffing his face and the caption reads, "Here, the author enjoys a meal and conversation with fellow hunters at a deer lodge." Gimme a break.

So enjoy your GPR and welcome aboard!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
Good choice, I have one just like it and I'm very, very happy with it. Main thing is to get out and do some shootin. You have been givin alot of great info. It might not all make sense right now but it will all come together after you been shootin a while. After a while you will want better and better acuracy and all the advise/stuff on here will be like gold
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
Re: Lyman GPR

cwfritz said:
I admit I've bought and read most if not all of Sam Fadala's books, and they do contain a lot of information, especially in the area of load data. However, the more I've read and learned elsewhere, the more I've seen how much of his writing is shallow, disorganized, and lacking in brevity. I am also suspicious of authors who illustrate their work with too many pictures of themselves - for example, page 323 of "The Complete Blackpowder Handbook, 4th Edition" shows ol' Sam stuffing his face and the caption reads, "Here, the author enjoys a meal and conversation with fellow hunters at a deer lodge." Gimme a break.
cwfritz- I agree about Sam Fadala, I think his knowledge of how Black Powder actually works is somewhat pathetic and he's certainly no Dostievsky but for the newbie, I think his BP loading manual is valuable
as they'll get a great overview of safe loading proceedures, and an excellent over view of the different aspects of the sport types of shooting
different equipment. I think his stuff is also quite dated as well, I've been trying to get Bill Knight (The Mad Monk) to assemble his considerable research on the history, behavior, manufacture and proper uses of Black Powder into a book, I think that would really advance the knowledge on the subject which is at this point downright pathetic at best.
Regards fredj
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for your replies and info on this. I really appreciate it a lot!
I shot it this morning. Not a whole lot but just to get an idea of where I am and where I need to go. It shoots low even at 25 yards and I'm out of vertical adjustment on the rear sight. I started out with 65gr of FFg and worked my way up to 85 gr and it still was low. The thing is that I don't know (yet) what the upper limit is for how much powder it will take safely. I know that my 1858 Remington .44 revolver (Pietta) seems to thrive on max loads for whatever reason. It doesn't seem any worse for the wear either but I don't shoot it all that much.
This Lyman IS a used gun and I bought it at a gun shop so I don't know what the last owner did with it.
As far as accuracy I'd like to say that my results were not good but I know that the using the set trigger had it's affect on how I shoot. I'm not used to that light of a trigger and it would fire before I was ready. Some of the holes were touching though.
I knew before that I'm supposed to find the fired patches and check them but I forgot to when I was shooting. I'll have to remember that the next time.
I don't have one of those jags for clearing the bore between shots so I used a 50 cal bore brush on a shotgun rod instead. I also tried just a tight fitting patch in a slotted shotgun jag. Sometimes both. Even with that, getting the ball down the barrel took a bunch of force. Nearly had to pound on it (but I didn't). A LOT more ramrod force needed than the first time I loaded it. I don't think a .495 ball would have gone down the bore at all like that.
I had 3 missfires of percussion caps. I had to hit them twice to get ignition. Weak hammer spring maybe?
The only book I have so far is an old one written by Geoge Nonte titled "Black Powder Guide. Second Edition" dated 1976 inside. I found it cheap (like about $2) at a flea market last year and got it because I knew I'd be getting a BP rifle sooner or later.
There are no black powder clubs in this area. I don't see a whole lot of interest at all in traditional style BP guns here. It's all in-line types.
Gun shops will have decently priced Hawken types on the racks forever without selling them. In-lines DO sell.
In all honesty I have to admit that I probalby won't get too far into BP shooting. What I want to do is get to where I have a good combination for this rifle that I can also use for deer hunting if I decide to do that.
If at all possible I'd like to get it to where it can group inside of 3" at 100 yards and and have enough power for deer and hog and leave it at that. I'd be a happy camper with that.
Now I've got to go clean this beast.

Fredj;
Is LPS 2 & 3 the kind of thing that can be found in a hardware store or does it need to be ordered?

Thanks again all of your replies.
JS :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
JS- The LPS 2 and 3 are standard hardware store stock at least around here. You might want to pick up one of those little drop down the bore
lights CVA amkes them ( $7 to $8) and very handy for seeing whats going on in a barrel, extremely nice when evaluating a new rifle.
You might also pick up some JB bore cleaning paste, it available at most better gunshops, or you can order it from Brownells and other places
it's a mild abrasive 6000 grit crushed garnet, it mainly used by precision
suppository rifle shooters for removing ironed in primer fouling and jacket wash and breaking in new barrels, it's great for smoothing things out in
BP rifles, particularly if the previous owner bought into the barrel seasoning nonsense, the JB will clean up most of the flake rust living in the pores that grows under the Bore butter or Wonder lube 1000.
that should make your loading a good bit easier as long as the previous owner wasn't doing the barrel seasoning with Pyrodrek, if thats the case
you may have to have a smith de-breech and do a barrel lap to clean things up, or even get a new barrel, hopefully thats not the case but if it is
a new barrel for a GPR is quite reasonable and with a new barrel and proper care you'll have the guild edge accuracy for many years to come.
You might not think you'll get into BP shooting all that much but be advised this stuff can get pretty addictive. :lol:
Regards fredj
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,594 Posts
JS44 said:
Thanks for your replies and info on this. I really appreciate it a lot!
I shot it this morning. Not a whole lot but just to get an idea of where I am and where I need to go. It shoots low even at 25 yards and I'm out of vertical adjustment on the rear sight. I started out with 65gr of FFg and worked my way up to 85 gr and it still was low. The thing is that I don't know (yet) what the upper limit is for how much powder it will take safely. I know that my 1858 Remington .44 revolver (Pietta) seems to thrive on max loads for whatever reason. It doesn't seem any worse for the wear either but I don't shoot it all that much.
This Lyman IS a used gun and I bought it at a gun shop so I don't know what the last owner did with it.
As far as accuracy I'd like to say that my results were not good but I know that the using the set trigger had it's affect on how I shoot. I'm not used to that light of a trigger and it would fire before I was ready. Some of the holes were touching though.
I knew before that I'm supposed to find the fired patches and check them but I forgot to when I was shooting. I'll have to remember that the next time.
I don't have one of those jags for clearing the bore between shots so I used a 50 cal bore brush on a shotgun rod instead. I also tried just a tight fitting patch in a slotted shotgun jag. Sometimes both. Even with that, getting the ball down the barrel took a bunch of force. Nearly had to pound on it (but I didn't). A LOT more ramrod force needed than the first time I loaded it. I don't think a .495 ball would have gone down the bore at all like that.
I had 3 missfires of percussion caps. I had to hit them twice to get ignition. Weak hammer spring maybe?
The only book I have so far is an old one written by Geoge Nonte titled "Black Powder Guide. Second Edition" dated 1976 inside. I found it cheap (like about $2) at a flea market last year and got it because I knew I'd be getting a BP rifle sooner or later.
There are no black powder clubs in this area. I don't see a whole lot of interest at all in traditional style BP guns here. It's all in-line types.
Gun shops will have decently priced Hawken types on the racks forever without selling them. In-lines DO sell.
In all honesty I have to admit that I probalby won't get too far into BP shooting. What I want to do is get to where I have a good combination for this rifle that I can also use for deer hunting if I decide to do that.
If at all possible I'd like to get it to where it can group inside of 3" at 100 yards and and have enough power for deer and hog and leave it at that. I'd be a happy camper with that.
Now I've got to go clean this beast.

Fredj;
Is LPS 2 & 3 the kind of thing that can be found in a hardware store or does it need to be ordered?

Thanks again all of your replies.
JS :D
Hey JS, On those misfires....After loading, try tipping the gun over on the hammer side and rapping the stock with the palm of your hand on the opposite side of the stock from the hammer. That will send powder into the nipple fire-path and should fix your misfires. Why aren't you using your ramrod to clean with? Doesn't the ram have a brass jag on the end of the rod? If not pick one up at a Wal-mart or gun store. T/C has them on racks everywhere. For lubrication, I find Ballistol to be a great product w/o being messy. Can be used for cleaning everything, including the stock and brass furniture. On that problem with the rear sight....Has the front sight been filed down or does it look original? Usually, they're intentionally left long so you can file them down to lower your elevation. If you're already too low, then perhaps the front sight blade has to be replaced?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
fredj wrote: "I've been trying to get Bill Knight (The Mad Monk) to assemble his considerable research on the history, behavior, manufacture and proper uses of Black Powder into a book, I think that would really advance the knowledge on the subject which is at this point downright pathetic at best."

Man, you are so right! I have saved every post he's made on these boards since I got into this addiction, a couple of which have been one-on-one emails, and could almost put together a Bill Knight book off my hard drive. Since blackpowdershooters.com announced its intention to go out of business a month or so ago I haven't seen much from him, but his contributions were so prolific that I can't believe he simply stopped participating. I'll try to contact him and will let you know what becomes of it.

If any of the rest of you can help bring The Mad Monk onto this board as a regular correspondant, please do so.

cwfritz
Ithaca NY
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,594 Posts
EOD3 said:
SavageT, would you like to reconsider that elevation thing?

EOD3
EOD3,
You, my friend, are ABSOLUTELY Correctamundo!!! :oops: When you file down the FRONT sight, the elevation goes UP. So IF you are too high and can't lower the rear sight, then fileing down the front sight is your only option.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
cwfritz said:
Man, you are so right! I have saved every post he's made on these boards since I got into this addiction, a couple of which have been one-on-one emails, and could almost put together a Bill Knight book off my hard drive. Since blackpowdershooters.com announced its intention to go out of business a month or so ago I haven't seen much from him, but his contributions were so prolific that I can't believe he simply stopped participating. I'll try to contact him and will let you know what becomes of it.cwfritz Ithaca NY
CW Fritz_ you and I are the same page about Bill, he is THE man when it comes to BP period, I've given him considerable brain damage over the years in a vain attempt to get him to publish, as his knowledge would prove invaluable to serious BP shooters for many generations to come
He was involved in a protracted legal case for many years which took up considerable amouts of his time and energies, he is BTW still contributing
regularly on the still not defunct Shooters.com Blackpowder site, that site is in ownership transition and going strong at this point however I believe
there isn't any way for new folks to register, I believe that the shooters.com sites are likely quite valuable given the numbers of shooters that use it so it'll just be a little while until someone takes the reigns again. As Bills friend I'm reluctant to try to induce him to join this or any other site as I think he's pretty burned out from egomaniacal
morons and various manufacturers giving him blasts of **** and threats for having the temmerity to debunk so many of thier scam products so brilliantly, and tell folks the truth concerning how bad they're being ripped off, ruining thier barrels etc, some of those toes he's stepped on are very big ones as far as some of the manufacturers go. At any rate Bill is active on the BP_L listserver and the Shooters.Com site I suggest getting his
inputs on those sites. I don't hassle him much anymore as far as publishing as you probably know he's the last guy to do anything he doesn't feel like doing, incidentaly he has an article in the current Black Powder Cartridge News, and I think that well be see a lot more mad Monk stuff in the not too distant future as his legal case is now history.
Regards fredj
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Thanks for the continued information.
The percussion cap problem that I mentioned was because the caps themselves weren't firing on the first try. It took two tries to get a few of them to fire. With that I assume it's a weak mainspring. Maybe the last owner forgot and left it cocked in storage for a long time. I ordered a new mainspring from Lyman to take care of that if that's the problem. Also, my front barrel wedge is kind of loose. It comes out easily with just finger pressure. I ordered replacements for both of them.
JS :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,594 Posts
JS44 said:
Thanks for the continued information.
The percussion cap problem that I mentioned was because the caps themselves weren't firing on the first try. It took two tries to get a few of them to fire. With that I assume it's a weak mainspring. Maybe the last owner forgot and left it cocked in storage for a long time. I ordered a new mainspring from Lyman to take care of that if that's the problem. Also, my front barrel wedge is kind of loose. It comes out easily with just finger pressure. I ordered replacements for both of them.
JS :D
JS,
On those wedge pins.....Don't be afraid to put a little more "set" in the middle of the pins by striking them with a hammer and cold chisel or screwdriver. I had to do that because my single pin on my Traditions wasn't tight enough.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
281 Posts
I had the same problem with the caps mis- or hang-firing...it's the "issue" nipple. The diameter (outside, where the cap sits) is about right, but the leetle, teeny hole in the bottom is not leetle, teeny enough, so you get a lot of blowback. It leaves a lot of ***** crud on the outside surface, because the hammer holds the cap down on the nipple pretty well and the hamer nose cup/ cap remnant directs the blast down the outside of the nipple. I found that , aside from calling in several STRONG friends to press the cap home (scary!), my best bet was, after each shot, to lick the end of a Q-Tip and wipe it around the nipple, cleaning it off. Don't be afraid to lick the Q-Tip another time for the next shot; the combustion products, while not especially flavorful, are not toxic. They blacken a spot on your tongue, though. This allows the cap to seat with ordinary pressure. Then you're not wasting one hammer blow just seating the cap. A nipple with a smaller leetl, teeny hole will cure the problem. THEN you'll get hangfires from not getting the powder close enough to the cap. Using REAL BP helps, too, because it ignites cooler than P*****x.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I took care of the barrel wedge issue the way SavageT said to and that seems to have fixed that. This morning I went to a place that specializes in black powder arms, Buffalo Bill's in Orlando, and bought a bunch of stuff. It's a well stocked store and they even had Lehigh Valley patch lube & bore cleaner. I got a brass range rod. More lead balls, FFg, CCI #11 caps, .017 pillow ticking, wooden ball starter, scraper, wedge puller, and other stuff. The guys there said about what Charlie Detroit said about the caps not going off. They seemed to know about their business quite well and had a lot of BP experience.
So I'm going to go out and try 'er again tomorrow morning knowing more that what I did last weekend. Better equipped too.
Thanks.
JS :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
281 Posts
You might try an Ampco nipple (be sure to get the right damn thread; it's metric!) from Dixie and probably a lot of other suppliers, too. (How can they keep calling them "Ampco"? The Ampco company failed and went out of business up here in Milwaukee some years ago, maybe 10.) The hole in that is 'way too small, at least for P*****x. You can enlarge it a bit, or try the sideways slap technique described earlier. You could PROBABLY (haven't got a catalogue in front of me) get one that takes a musket, or top-hat cap, and that would probably help a lot. The Ampco nipples don't erode appreciably; the metal is so heat-conductive that it never gets hot enough in one place to start eroding.
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top