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Discussion Starter #1
I may have set a record... for having a new hunting muzzleoader the longest before shooting it! :) (6 months)
I went out and shot my new Encore muzleloader 50 cal. this weekend. I used the 209 conversion with CCI 400 primers. I started with 100gr. of some Pyrodex RS to get it on paper. My first shot missed the sight in target at 100yds. I need to get familiar with the new bore sighter. So I moved the target to 25 yds. and saw it was hitting low and to the right on my second shot. I made an adjusted to the scope and bam...bulls eye. Next I went back to 100 yds. and bam another bulls eye.
I then cleaned the barrel with a wet patch (TC #13) and dry patched it. I used no lube and loaded 100 gr. of Triple7 and a 300 gr. Barnes MZ. I shot three of these without cleaning between shot. Loaded fine...tight. but no different than my Model 700. I got a 2 1/4" triangle shape group. I did not see any evidence of a crud ring.
I then cleaned the rifle again and this time shot a three shot group of 100gr. Black Mag 3 behind a 300 gr. Barnes MZ. I also shot these without cleaning between shots and no lube. I got a 2"group on a horizontal line. This loaded the same. I did not notice any crud ring or experience any crystallizing of the breech plug. Clean up was a lot quicker with the BM3. One wet patch and two dry patches...done. I liked that!
Well overall I think I have a keeper :) Maybe a possible tack driver if I get the right combination of componets and clean between shots.
No blow back into the action, everything stayed in the barrel! I did notice a ring of crusted powder build up on the area where the breech plug was sealed when I removed the breech plug. This was not hardened or difficult to remove. Not sure which powder caused it.
Recoil was not bad with the Boyd laminate stocks. Triple seven still showed a little more umph as far as recoil. Didn't have a chrony this time out.
I will ring the powders out individually and make my choice. So far they are both about the same in performance. I have others bullets to try as well. Maybe if I shoot long enough I'll get a crud ring with 777... don't know yet. Maybe it will shoot like my 700 ML one day soon. But 10 shots and two decent groups, good enough hunt with already..I'm happy. :grin:
One day I'll try and post some pics of some of my groups.

Thanks for the good posts to help me along with the Encore,
Stan
 

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You said 209 conversion but I think you meant rifle primer conversion. I also just recently received a note that Winchester primers both the 209 and some rifle primers may cause more crud ring than others especially CCI primers. CCI seems to be one which does not cause any ring. You also mentioned more recoil with the 777 and that is usually true although I have measured the velocity of both ffg 777 and Black Mag'3 using 100gr. volume charges and a 300gr. bullet in Harvester sabot in my T/C Omega and the velocity figures were 777 - 1643fps. Black Mag'3 - 1920fps. The recoil of 777 was much more sharp and uncomfortable even thought the actual velocity of Black Mag'3 was faster. Glad to hear the BM3 results were good for you also. Some are reporting difficulty getting accuracy with BM3 but that has not been a problem for me and apparently you did well also. If I can find some locally to get it at a decent price I intend to make it my primary powder for hunting due to the lack of fouling and easier second shot potential.
 

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Stan M. good job with your Encore. Sounds like you got a good shooter there, keep us informed of you progress. :D
 

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Keith,

I think Stan was talking about Cecils NEW VariFlame tm PRIMER ADAPTER Conversion that uses a machined brass 209 (shaped & sized) primer holder that will accept the 400 Rifle Primers. Maybe I'm wrong but I think that is what he meant. Check it out if you haven't already seen it.
http://www.prbullet.com/vf.htm
 

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Stan - Congrats on the Encore. I tried BM3 in my Encore this weekend as well and, unlike you, had terrible results. Don't know whether I got a bad batch or what but I had less problems with cleanup using Pyrodex in my sidelock. My breachplug was completely chrystalized and the barrel had this "caked on" fouling all the way up to about 2/3 of the barrel only after three shots. Sort of reminded me of dental plaque. The fouling was so bad in the bore it was all I could do to seat a third bullet for a three shot group before I had to take the rifle apart to clean. I had to soak the bore with powder solvent and apply 10 to 20 strokes with a bore brush just to loosen up the fouling. Water didn't even phase it. I have never had to do this with Triple 7. Live and learn I guess. I am very disappointed in this powder but am glad to hear you are having good results with it.
 

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Has to be something strange going on as this is not what is usually seen with Black Mag'3. You may have had some other barrel problem like some oil or something that reacted with the black mag. I have not seen this or anything like it with the powder. Sorry to hear you had that experience. I had a similar one with Goex Pioneer but have decided I did something wrong so I am going to try it again. Everybody else had good results so it is my problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Oops, I meant 25 ACP conversion. Like I said, I had good results with Black Mag 3.. so far. But all I fired was three consecutive shots. I couldn't get over how easy the grey ash came out with a wet patch. As far as group size it was somewhat smaller than the 777 group. I will shoot more and see what happens.
A friend of mind bought BM 3 and shot it in his 45. cal Encore and it cystalized the breech plug shut. He had to chip the mess out. His accuracy was not near as good as what he was getting with 777. He has traded the Encore and two erratic shooting rifle barrels (.204 and .270) and picked up a 50 cal Omega. I'll hopefully get with him and try BM3 again. If not I have been promised his slightly used jug. maybe I can help solve this mystery.
Funny I haven't experienced anything bad so far...except the higher price of the Black Mag 3. :wink: But the 777 is difenitley not out of the picture yet. I have seen two one hole group targets from the guys at work using the 250 gr. SST's and pyrodex pellets. I think I'll give my pack of 300gr. SST's a work out next.
Thanks Again,
Stan
 

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Kieth - I would be thrilled to use BM3 (especially for what I paid for it :wink: ) and I can confirm that the bore was dry prior to firing after each cleaning and after every shot. My shooting procedure consisted of dry patching after each shot. Each time I dry patched, it felt like a "T7 crud ring" all the way down to the plug and it never broke up or got easier with subsequent strokes. As referenced in Stan's prior post, I too had to "scrape" the chrystal fouling off the face of my breach plug with tooth picks after only three shots. Any suggestions you may have would be appreciated.

Stan - If you get an opportynity to shoot your friend's batch of BM3 in your Encore I would be interested to hear the results. It seems strange that he and I had similar problems with the same powder when others have nothing but praise for BM3. I can't help but wonder if its related to a bad batch.
 

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I will try to get an answer to this phenomenon from some of the Magkor folks. I have a couple of contacts that have been helpful in the past.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Donedidit,
That is a good idea about shooting my friends BM3 powder in my gun. He has said I could have it. He did not clean the bore between shots. He is actually scared to shoot it in his new Omega. He said he had to pick and chip the stuff out of the breech plug and it was almost impossible to load the third bullet. Took a whole lot of umph to get it down. Good thing he lifts weights :lol:
But here is some food for thought. His powder was purchased from the same place as I got mine. If the lot number is the number stamped on the top right of the label, above the number 3, then it is the same lot number as my jug. I also bought two jugs, one for myself and one for another friend, who also has a new unfired Omega. Our lot numbers are the same as well. So I have three jugs of powder with the same lot number. Two jugs have had three shots each fired from it, in Encores. His a .45 and mine was a .50 and he had troubles and I didn't. :?
Will let you know the outcome. I'm kind of pressed for bench time here lately. I want to spend my free time shooting ground hogs but haven't done that either. But I'll take the time to ring out BM3 one evening.
Also while looking at the lot numbers it felt like there was a clump in my once opened jug. I didn't open the jug and look at it, but shook it and the clump seemed to dissipate. Hope this stuff isn't finicky to moisture in my humid shooting enviroment. I'll pre-measure my next charges and leave the jug home, where it is cool.
Will keep ya posted,
Stan
 

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Stan M: Some of the BM3 batches have had some clumping and according to Magkor that is not a problem as the clumps break up easy and the powder is supposed to be able to get very damp and then dry out with no bad side effects. Not supposed to be sensitive to moisture like some were. I have not had any of the bad results with my powder either although I have only shot about a half pound at this time out of one bottle (I bought four and gave one to a friend); He has not had any problems either. Many users very few problems but even one problem is one too many if the powder is going to get rave reviews. I am feeding this information to Magkor to both the CEO and a chemist that works with them. Have not gotten a reply as yet.
 
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