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So, if I don't sneeze, cough or talk when in public, I don't need to wear a mask.
How long can you hold your breath so you don't have to exhale! o_O

Tim
 

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I actually read part of a post that said " Say your son or grandson dies. Would you really not be angry with the other man who was out there not wearing a mask, didn't have symptoms, but passes it on to you. At the funeral would you really not look at that dead child and say to yourself "how ------- stupid was I? All I had to do was to put a silly mask on for the 10 minutes I was in the store" Numbers from the CDC indicate that a child from 1-4 years old have 20 times more chance of dying from the flu than from covid. 5-14 year olds have 7 times more chance of dying from the flu than from covid, and 15 to 24 year olds have 1.25 times more chance of dying from the flu than from covid. Yet we are all hysterical about kids getting covid and dying from it. Why??? Actually truth be told. I'm more afraid of one of my kids or grand kids dying from a car accident, or being struck by lighting than them getting covid and dying from it. Oh but we have to be afraid because we have been conditioned to be afraid. Wonder how afraid people would be if we didn't have the alphabet news networks, and our government telling us how afraid to be? I never once in my lifetime have I seen such hysteria because of the flu virus, and lots of people die from it all the time. The leftist media and certain sects of our government want nothing other than to see covid numbers and covid deaths. It drives their agenda. Its why there have been so many false deaths and cases reported, and people take the news hook line and sinker. People that think all the shutdowns, mask wearing, and stupid guidelines written are about this virus need to open their eyes a little wider. From what I see a tyrannical government takeover is going to be easy for them.
 

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A Plague of Willful Ignorance
By Paul Krugman
Opinion Columnist

In the early 20th century the American South was ravaged by pellagra, a nasty disease that produced the “four Ds” — dermatitis, diarrhea, dementia and death. At first, pellagra’s nature was uncertain, but by 1915 Dr. Joseph Goldberger, a Hungarian immigrant employed by the federal government, had conclusively shown that it was caused by nutritional deficiencies associated with poverty, and especially with a corn-based diet.

However, for decades many Southern citizens and politicians refused to accept this diagnosis, declaring either that the epidemic was a fiction created by Northerners to insult the South or that the nutritional theory was an attack on Southern culture. And deaths from pellagra continued to climb.

Sound familiar?

We’ve known for months what it takes to bring Covid-19 under control. You need a period of severe lockdown to reduce the disease’s prevalence. Only then can you reopen the economy — while maintaining social distancing as needed — and even then you need a regime of widespread testing, tracing and isolation of potentially infected individuals to keep the virus suppressed.

Most advanced countries have gone down this route. A few countries, like New Zealand and South Korea, have largely or completely defeated the coronavirus. The European Union, comparable in population and diversity to the United States, continues to record new cases of Covid-19, but at a far slower rate than at the pandemic’s peak in late March and early April.

But the United States is exceptional, in a very bad way. Our rate of new cases never declined all that much, because falling infection rates in the New York area were offset by flat or rising infections in the South and the West. Now cases are on the rise nationally and surging in such states as Arizona, Texas and Florida.

And no, reported infections aren’t rising just because we’re doing more testing; contra Donald Trump, we can’t solve this problem just by testing less. Other indicators, like the percentage of tests coming back positive and hospitalization rates, show that the Covid-19 surge is real.

It’s true that deaths are still falling for the nation as a whole, although they’re rising in some states. This reflects some combination of the way that deaths lag infections, better precautions for the elderly, who are the most vulnerable, and better treatment as doctors learn more about the disease.

But we’re still losing around 600 Americans per day — that is, we’re experiencing the equivalent of six 9/11s every month. And many people who aren’t killed by Covid-19 are nonetheless debilitated by the illness, sometimes permanently.

Why are we doing so badly? A lot of the answer is that many state governments have rushed to return to business as usual even though only a handful of states meet federal criteria for even the initial phase of reopening. Epidemiologists warned that premature reopening would lead to a new wave of infections — and they were right.



Beyond that, in America, and only in America, basic health precautions have been caught up in a culture war. Most obviously, not wearing a face mask, and hence gratuitously endangering other people, has become a political symbol: Trump has suggested that some people wear masks only to signal disapproval of him, and many Americans have decided that requiring masks in indoor spaces is an assault on their freedom.


As a result, social distancing has become partisan: self-identified Republicans do less of it than self-identified Democrats. We all saw how this plays out in Tulsa, where a large (if smaller than expected) crowd gathered, mostly without masks, in an indoor setting custom-designed to spread the coronavirus.

And the next Trump rally, on Tuesday, will take place in Arizona, where Covid-19 is exploding, but where the Republican governor not only refuses to require mask-wearing but refused until a few days ago to allow local governments to impose their own rules.

The moral of this story is that America’s uniquely poor response to the coronavirus isn’t just the result of bad leadership at the top — although tens of thousands of lives would have been saved if we had a president who would deal with problems instead of trying to wish them away.

We’re also doing badly because, as the example of pellagra shows, there’s a longstanding anti-science, anti-expertise streak in American culture — the same streak that makes us uniquely unwilling to accept the reality of evolution or acknowledge the threat of climate change.

We aren’t a nation of know-nothings; many, probably most Americans are willing to listen to experts and act responsibly. But there’s a belligerent faction within our society that refuses to acknowledge inconvenient or uncomfortable facts, preferring to believe that experts are somehow conspiring against them.

Trump hasn’t just failed to rise to the policy challenge posed by Covid-19. He has, with his words and actions — notably his refusal to wear a mask — encouraged and empowered America’s anti-rational streak.

And this rejection of expertise, science and responsibility in general is killing us.

 

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Ok, lets look at the numbers. Oregon has had riots for what, about a month or longer now? Yet their numbers are what, 1/3 ours in TN, when pop is only what, 2/3 of TN? So what is it, no masks or corn that are taking out tennesseans?

Oregon
247744

247748


Tennessee
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247747


247749
 

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pretty rare that a kid gets hit out in front of your house by a car too but you sure don't send them out to play there. Don't know of to many GOOD parents that send there kids out to play in a lightning storm either. Kind of silly to make this look insignificant by quoting crap like the flu kills more or something else kills more so why worry. It has killed 100s of thousands of americans. Like I said more then the viet nam and Korean war combined. Only an idiot would take it lightly or not think about protecting there child. That the government is stepping up to protect us is a good thing. What would be scary is if they were like Russia and tried to down play this and let people die. Thank God we live in a country that actually cares about its people.
I actually read part of a post that said " Say your son or grandson dies. Would you really not be angry with the other man who was out there not wearing a mask, didn't have symptoms, but passes it on to you. At the funeral would you really not look at that dead child and say to yourself "how ------- stupid was I? All I had to do was to put a silly mask on for the 10 minutes I was in the store" Numbers from the CDC indicate that a child from 1-4 years old have 20 times more chance of dying from the flu than from covid. 5-14 year olds have 7 times more chance of dying from the flu than from covid, and 15 to 24 year olds have 1.25 times more chance of dying from the flu than from covid. Yet we are all hysterical about kids getting covid and dying from it. Why??? Actually truth be told. I'm more afraid of one of my kids or grand kids dying from a car accident, or being struck by lighting than them getting covid and dying from it. Oh but we have to be afraid because we have been conditioned to be afraid. Wonder how afraid people would be if we didn't have the alphabet news networks, and our government telling us how afraid to be? I never once in my lifetime have I seen such hysteria because of the flu virus, and lots of people die from it all the time. The leftist media and certain sects of our government want nothing other than to see covid numbers and covid deaths. It drives their agenda. Its why there have been so many false deaths and cases reported, and people take the news hook line and sinker. People that think all the shutdowns, mask wearing, and stupid guidelines written are about this virus need to open their eyes a little wider. From what I see a tyrannical government takeover is going to be easy for them.
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your right hes the one that actually served his country with more then lip service. What did you even do for a living. I don't recall you ever claiming you actually work for a living. Lets see what you lies you can dream up today.
You are not fooling anyone. The fact that ya think you are is what makes you a fool... Also I don’t drive around in a camper that was purebred. Ya know the one you helped get banned. 8 years out of country in the army. I know it’s tough keeping your facts straight when there pulled out of your arse. I would dispute more of your so called facts but that would just give them merit. Which they have none.
 

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The problem is, if someone catches the virus, there is no definitive way to say how they caught it. You cannot interview the virus and ask it how it got to you. You cannot say he caught it from the guy in the grocery store that wasn't wearing a mask. There is no way to tell if it was from breathing it in, touching a piece of fruit then rubbing your eye, touching money then touching your face, you just don't know and to say that someone died because you didn't wear a mask is pure speculation.

If I truely believed mask would save lives, I would be wearing one all the time. I just don't believe the hype. I wear when it is required. Washing hands thoroughly especially before eating and standard good hygiene is what prevents spread of disease. Not getting in other's face is another way.

If I had to speculate, I would bet it is transmitted more by touch than by breathing.

I am a habitual hand washer and germ-o-phobe, have been all my life. Don't pass a sink without washing my hands. I had lots of sanitizer already before this started, a bottle in every vehicle. That being said, I can't remember the last time I have had the flu or a bad cold. Can't recall ever going to the DR or getting medicine for either.

I am a people watcher and watch folks in public wearing their mask and gloves and they don't have a clue about germ transmission and sanitation. Folks wear gloves in the store then get out their keys and drive off with those same dirty gloves on. Now they have taken whatever they may have picked up in the store to their vehicle. Had a waitress who was wearing the "life saving" mask take the bill/credit card holder and lay it on my dirty napkin when bringing me that bill. Now, whatever I left on my napkin is now on that holder and the waitress and next customer will touch it. If I left germs there, they may now have them. Saw a waiter take my cup in his hand, refill it, then proceed to another table and get their cup and refill it, now my germs are on that person's cup. Been to several stores where I held up my member card to scan and the cashier reached out and grabbed it. Another location, I held up my phone to show them the coupon code and they reached out and grabbed my phone, 2 different employees in the same store did it. I didn't say anything, just wiped everything down with my sanitizer when I got to my vehicle.

Rosewood
 

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The problem is, if someone catches the virus, there is no definitive way to say how they caught it. You cannot interview the virus and ask it how it got to you. You cannot say he caught it from the guy in the grocery store that wasn't wearing a mask. There is no way to tell if it was from breathing it in, touching a piece of fruit then rubbing your eye, touching money then touching your face, you just don't know and to say that someone died because you didn't wear a mask is pure speculation.

If I truely believed mask would save lives, I would be wearing one all the time. I just don't believe the hype. I wear when it is required. Washing hands thoroughly especially before eating and standard good hygiene is what prevents spread of disease. Not getting in other's face is another way.

If I had to speculate, I would bet it is transmitted more by touch than by breathing.

I am a habitual hand washer and germ-o-phobe, have been all my life. Don't pass a sink without washing my hands. I had lots of sanitizer already before this started, a bottle in every vehicle. That being said, I can't remember the last time I have had the flu or a bad cold. Can't recall ever going to the DR or getting medicine for either.

I am a people watcher and watch folks in public wearing their mask and gloves and they don't have a clue about germ transmission and sanitation. Folks wear gloves in the store then get out their keys and drive off with those same dirty gloves on. Now they have taken whatever they may have picked up in the store to their vehicle. Had a waitress who was wearing the "life saving" mask take the bill/credit card holder and lay it on my dirty napkin when bringing me that bill. Now, whatever I left on my napkin is now on that holder and the waitress and next customer will touch it. If I left germs there, they may now have them. Saw a waiter take my cup in his hand, refill it, then proceed to another table and get their cup and refill it, now my germs are on that person's cup. Been to several stores where I held up my member card to scan and the cashier reached out and grabbed it. Another location, I held up my phone to show them the coupon code and they reached out and grabbed my phone, 2 different employees in the same store did it. I didn't say anything, just wiped everything down with my sanitizer when I got to my vehicle.

Rosewood
This is all about submission and compliance. I also watch others and not just out of curiosity. I saw a guy at the deli counter adjust his cotton panties errr mask at his mouth then cut and handle people’s cheese and meats never changing his gloves or washing his hands. I’ve seen waiters and waitresses Handle menus and money then stick there finger in the cup or plate to help them carry it. The list is long. One more thing. While I was in the store getting groceries I was one of the only ones not wearing a mask. There was one other and he was a sheriff.
 

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If they truly want to stop the spread. Let's teach people proper sanitation practices instead of telling them to wear a mask which hasn't been proven to be effective and you get a different story depending on what "Expert" is speaking. I think the mask and gloves give folks the false sense of security. They think it makes them bullet proof.

Rosewood
 

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pretty rare that a kid gets hit out in front of your house by a car too but you sure don't send them out to play there. Don't know of to many GOOD parents that send there kids out to play in a lightning storm either. Kind of silly to make this look insignificant by quoting crap like the flu kills more or something else kills more so why worry. It has killed 100s of thousands of americans. Like I said more then the viet nam and Korean war combined. Only an idiot would take it lightly or not think about protecting there child. That the government is stepping up to protect us is a good thing. What would be scary is if they were like Russia and tried to down play this and let people die. Thank God we live in a country that actually cares about its people.
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Why twist what I said, and turn it into something where you can more easily deflect? Then you refer to me as an idiot. You do this because your argument isn't based on any facts, and in this case its based only on fear driven by the media, and government. I said nothing about kids getting sent in front of the house, then getting hit by a car. I will guarantee you kids are way more apt to die in a car accident than by covid, and that is people 25 years old and younger. That is a fact! Although I understand it doesn't fit the leftist agenda where all our children are dying from covid. Also I said nothing about sending kids into a thunder storm to play. Did that somehow suit you to twist that around as you did?
As of a couple weeks ago there were 171 people that died from covid in the US that were 25 years old and younger. On the other hand there were 179 people in the same age bracket that died from H1N1 flu virus. Where is all the mask wearing hysteria and business shutting down because of the flu??? A couple weeks ago 11,663 people died from cancer, 4,711 from poverty, heart disease and stroke 13,944, COPD 2692 died. These death numbers from these conditions were in one week in the US. Why are those numbers not counted daily or even mentioned??? Think there could possibly be some kind of agenda?? Oh, and people actually think that government cares about them. Its amazing what people will give up if they think their government is keeping them safe. If government really cared about your health, they would be telling Americans how to boost their immune system. Yet not one government health official has said anything about that. All they do is tell you how to wash your hands, wear masks, and what business can remain open. They care so much about people that they shoved thousands of people with covid into nursing homes, where a large number of the covid deaths occurred. Its almost like some governors were trying to inflate death numbers.
 

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Discussion Starter #51

OP-EDJULY 24, 2020

Horowitz: Exposing the maskerade: The questions every American should be asking about indefinite mask mandates
"Just shut up and wear a mask" is not science, ordered liberty, or constitutional governance

The trope of "just shut up and wear a mask" is not science, ordered liberty, or constitutional governance. It's what they do in North Korea. We need real debate on the effectiveness of masks, the type of masks, the situations in which they are worn, the duration of time, the benchmarks that need to be met to measure effectiveness, and the process for promulgating these rules. We are no longer 24 hours into an emergency. We are four months into this virus, and it's time to function like the representative republic that we are.



POLL: Will Joe Biden still be the Democratic Party's presidential candidate when we get to November?


There are numerous political and scientific questions any thinking person should be asking at this point:

  • Why did the CDC, World Health Organization, and such luminaries as Fauci and Surgeon General Jerome Adams so emphatically dismiss the effectiveness of masks, then flip 180 degrees to the point where they shame people who don't wear them, without ever explaining what changed? While we learn more about the virus every day, the micro-biology of the particles hasn't changed, and the premise that non-professional masks worn by non-trained professionals run the risk of counterproductive cross-contamination did not change.
  • The suggestion that this is needed to protect others raises the obvious question: If me not wearing a mask transmits the virus to others who are wearing a mask, then is that not an admission that masks do not work to stop a respiratory virus that is microscopic and gets through the mask? Garbage in, garbage out. It makes no sense to suggest it doesn't penetrate the transmitter's mask from inside-out, especially with the air pressure of a cough or sneeze, but can penetrate the mask of the receiver through suspended molecules that are stagnant without pressure pushing those molecules outside-in to the receiver. If anything, the opposite should be true – it should be more effective for protection of yourself.
  • How can mask-wearing work when everyone just stores them in their pockets to collect bacteria, as our government officials predicted from day one?
  • How could kids ever keep it clean and not collect more bacteria, and where is the evidence that children are even a vector for viral transmission? My home county is mandating that even two-year-olds wear masks. How can anyone suggest that children can keep them clean, and where is the evidence that young children are a vector for transmitting the virus, when numerous studies from other countries have shown the opposite?
  • Mask-wearing in all of the major cities – from Los Angeles to Miami – has been in place and followed by pressure and community shaming for months. Compliance in most of these places has been off the charts, according to the NYT. Yet the virus is still spreading more than before the mandate. The virus is now spreading in Japan, Hong Kong, and the Philippines, which have near universal mask-wearing. At what point does the mask cult have to provide evidence of the effectiveness of these unconstitutional mandates, and at what point do benchmarks have to be met to maintain such a draconian and life-altering requirement?
  • Do masks that are continuously reused, cross-contaminated, and not properly disposed of become a trap to further transmit the virus or become retainers for other pathogens – or at the very least for bacteria, which are larger than viruses – that can harm the mask-wearer and others alike?
  • What are the known side effects to one's health after wearing these masks for hours on end in the heat, especially for children in school? Does long-term mask-wearing lower oxygen levels and compromise our immune systems?
  • Do masks cause people to touch their faces more often, the exact opposite of what was originally the desired result?
To suggest that individuals be forced into something so personal as covering their own faces indefinitely under the guise of protecting other people is a huge, dramatic change in the relationship between the government and the citizen. We should at minimum get clarity on these questions before allowing any executive authority to unilaterally decree it. Doesn't the near-universal opposition to widespread mask-wearing from these very same "experts" before the issue became political hold any weight? Doesn't their reversal demand explanation?
To this day, there has never been a clinical study with randomized controlled trials in non-health-care settings that vouch for the effectiveness of universal mask-wearing in public. All we have so far are anecdotes and laboratory filtration studies, not real human-to-human studies. When asked about conducting one, Dr. Fauci said there is no intention to do so. In fact, he went from resolutely dismissing the idea of wearing masks in March to now telling a group of Georgetown University students that he couldn't even conduct a study because he was so scared of having even a study group go without masks!





Thus, we are told we are not allowed to breathe free air without a mask – no studies allowed. Fauci's view? No votes, no hearings, no debate, no studies, no time limits, no performance benchmarks. Shut up and cover your mouth indefinitely and don't you dare express the view he used to espouse … or else.

Until now, the only time mask use has ever been a studied in a non-health-care setting showed the opposite of what the political class is saying. As Dr. Andrew Bostom of Brown University wrote earlier this month:

Moreover, a subsequent pooled (so-called "meta-") analysis of ten controlled trials assessing extended, real-world, non-health-care-setting mask usage revealed that masking did not reduce the rate of laboratory-proven infections with the respiratory virus influenza. The findings from this unique report — published May 2020 by the CDC's own "house journal" "Emerging Infectious Diseases" — are directly germane to the question of masking to prevent COVID-19 infection and merit some elaboration.

One study evaluated mask usage by Hajj pilgrims to Mecca, two university-setting studies assessed the efficacy of face masks for prevention of confirmed influenza among student campus residents over five months of surveillance, and seven household studies examined the impact of masking infected persons only (one), household contacts of infected persons only (one), or both groups (five). None of these studies, individually, or their aggregated, pooled analysis, which enhanced the overall "statistical power" to detect smaller effects, demonstrated a significant benefit of masking for the reduction of confirmed influenza infection (also see tabulation). The authors further concluded with a caution that using face masks improperly might "increase the risk for (viral) transmission."
As doctors from the Department of Infectious Diseases and Microbiology at Children's Hospital at Westmead in Sydney, Australia, concluded in arguing against even health care workers wearing surgical masks when treating low‐risk patients, "There is no good evidence that facemasks protect the public against infection with respiratory viruses, including COVID‐19."

They explain how the way most people use masks could actually become counterproductive:

One danger of doing this is the illusion of protection. Surgical facemasks are designed to be discarded after single use. As they become moist they become porous and no longer protect. Indeed, experiments have shown that surgical and cotton masks do not trap the SARS‐CoV‐2 (COVID‐19) virus, which can be detected on the outer surface of the masks for up to 7 days. Thus, a pre‐symptomatic or mildly infected person wearing a facemask for hours without changing it and without washing hands every time they touched the mask could paradoxically increase the risk of infecting others.
They cite a "desperate situation" in the U.S. as the impetus for the CDC's reversal on masks and note that it is based on "scant" evidence. Which is why, "In contrast, the World Health Organization currently recommends against the public routinely wearing facemasks."

Even N95s, which certainly cause people to get headaches by stifling fresh air, don't necessarily show conclusively positive outcomes. A 2019 study of 2,862 randomized participants (Radonovich, L.J. et al. (2019)) published in JAMA found, "Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators vs medical masks as worn by participants in this trial resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza."

There's a reason why as late as May, the CDC was citing the 10 randomized controlled trials that showed "no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks." Containing the virions that are emitted from the aerosols in a mask, much less a cloth that so many wear, is like locking up a bee in a jail cell. As the CDC notes, masks were not designed to protect against microbiological particles 0.1 micron in size — or one hundred-thousandth of a centimeter — but from visible contamination.

Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.
How does such a grounded observation built on 10 unrefuted clinical studies change in just a matter of weeks if not for politics? If anything, COVID-19 is more of a dry cough than the flu, which would likely produce more atomized particles that are certainly not larger than the wetter flu emissions. Yet the CDC has gone from vehemently opposing masks to promoting even cloth coverings, which everyone agrees do not filter out most particles.
 

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Don't ask questions, just wear the dang mask!

If you question anything, you don't care about other people....
 

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A Plague of Willful Ignorance
By Paul Krugman
Opinion Columnist

In the early 20th century the American South was ravaged by pellagra, a nasty disease that produced the “four Ds” — dermatitis, diarrhea, dementia and death. At first, pellagra’s nature was uncertain, but by 1915 Dr. Joseph Goldberger, a Hungarian immigrant employed by the federal government, had conclusively shown that it was caused by nutritional deficiencies associated with poverty, and especially with a corn-based diet.

However, for decades many Southern citizens and politicians refused to accept this diagnosis, declaring either that the epidemic was a fiction created by Northerners to insult the South or that the nutritional theory was an attack on Southern culture. And deaths from pellagra continued to climb.

Sound familiar?

We’ve known for months what it takes to bring Covid-19 under control. You need a period of severe lockdown to reduce the disease’s prevalence. Only then can you reopen the economy — while maintaining social distancing as needed — and even then you need a regime of widespread testing, tracing and isolation of potentially infected individuals to keep the virus suppressed.

Most advanced countries have gone down this route. A few countries, like New Zealand and South Korea, have largely or completely defeated the coronavirus. The European Union, comparable in population and diversity to the United States, continues to record new cases of Covid-19, but at a far slower rate than at the pandemic’s peak in late March and early April.

But the United States is exceptional, in a very bad way. Our rate of new cases never declined all that much, because falling infection rates in the New York area were offset by flat or rising infections in the South and the West. Now cases are on the rise nationally and surging in such states as Arizona, Texas and Florida.

And no, reported infections aren’t rising just because we’re doing more testing; contra Donald Trump, we can’t solve this problem just by testing less. Other indicators, like the percentage of tests coming back positive and hospitalization rates, show that the Covid-19 surge is real.

It’s true that deaths are still falling for the nation as a whole, although they’re rising in some states. This reflects some combination of the way that deaths lag infections, better precautions for the elderly, who are the most vulnerable, and better treatment as doctors learn more about the disease.

But we’re still losing around 600 Americans per day — that is, we’re experiencing the equivalent of six 9/11s every month. And many people who aren’t killed by Covid-19 are nonetheless debilitated by the illness, sometimes permanently.

Why are we doing so badly? A lot of the answer is that many state governments have rushed to return to business as usual even though only a handful of states meet federal criteria for even the initial phase of reopening. Epidemiologists warned that premature reopening would lead to a new wave of infections — and they were right.



Beyond that, in America, and only in America, basic health precautions have been caught up in a culture war. Most obviously, not wearing a face mask, and hence gratuitously endangering other people, has become a political symbol: Trump has suggested that some people wear masks only to signal disapproval of him, and many Americans have decided that requiring masks in indoor spaces is an assault on their freedom.


As a result, social distancing has become partisan: self-identified Republicans do less of it than self-identified Democrats. We all saw how this plays out in Tulsa, where a large (if smaller than expected) crowd gathered, mostly without masks, in an indoor setting custom-designed to spread the coronavirus.

And the next Trump rally, on Tuesday, will take place in Arizona, where Covid-19 is exploding, but where the Republican governor not only refuses to require mask-wearing but refused until a few days ago to allow local governments to impose their own rules.

The moral of this story is that America’s uniquely poor response to the coronavirus isn’t just the result of bad leadership at the top — although tens of thousands of lives would have been saved if we had a president who would deal with problems instead of trying to wish them away.

We’re also doing badly because, as the example of pellagra shows, there’s a longstanding anti-science, anti-expertise streak in American culture — the same streak that makes us uniquely unwilling to accept the reality of evolution or acknowledge the threat of climate change.

We aren’t a nation of know-nothings; many, probably most Americans are willing to listen to experts and act responsibly. But there’s a belligerent faction within our society that refuses to acknowledge inconvenient or uncomfortable facts, preferring to believe that experts are somehow conspiring against them.

Trump hasn’t just failed to rise to the policy challenge posed by Covid-19. He has, with his words and actions — notably his refusal to wear a mask — encouraged and empowered America’s anti-rational streak.

And this rejection of expertise, science and responsibility in general is killing us.

Can we have a dislike button? Now President Trump bashing and more leftist propaganda from another far left source the new york times... another great post👎
 

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Can we have a dislike button? Now President Trump bashing and more leftist propaganda from another far left source the new york times... another great post👎
Actually tens of thousands of lives would have been saved if 1. Hydroxychlorquine, zinc and azrithomyacin were administered. And 2 liberal dumbasses did not put covid positive individuals in nursing homes without
 

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caring for those least protected from flu/influenza and other pathogens. And three, it doesn’t fit the liberal agenda of destroying our Republic...
 
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Why twist what I said, and turn it into something where you can more easily deflect? Then you refer to me as an idiot. You do this because your argument isn't based on any facts, and in this case its based only on fear driven by the media, and government. I said nothing about kids getting sent in front of the house, then getting hit by a car. I will guarantee you kids are way more apt to die in a car accident than by covid, and that is people 25 years old and younger. That is a fact! Although I understand it doesn't fit the leftist agenda where all our children are dying from covid. Also I said nothing about sending kids into a thunder storm to play. Did that somehow suit you to twist that around as you did?
As of a couple weeks ago there were 171 people that died from covid in the US that were 25 years old and younger. On the other hand there were 179 people in the same age bracket that died from H1N1 flu virus. Where is all the mask wearing hysteria and business shutting down because of the flu??? A couple weeks ago 11,663 people died from cancer, 4,711 from poverty, heart disease and stroke 13,944, COPD 2692 died. These death numbers from these conditions were in one week in the US. Why are those numbers not counted daily or even mentioned??? Think there could possibly be some kind of agenda?? Oh, and people actually think that government cares about them. Its amazing what people will give up if they think their government is keeping them safe. If government really cared about your health, they would be telling Americans how to boost their immune system. Yet not one government health official has said anything about that. All they do is tell you how to wash your hands, wear masks, and what business can remain open. They care so much about people that they shoved thousands of people with covid into nursing homes, where a large number of the covid deaths occurred. Its almost like some governors were trying to inflate death numbers.
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You expect this .... to have a rational argument? Welcome my friend...
 

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you expect this .... to have a rational argument? Welcome my friend...
No not really. I have tried to have rational discussions with many liberals over the years, and it never works. First they deflect from anything you said. Then after that the name calling starts. Like they are a child. Its all they got, because their arguments are not based on any facts at all.
 

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It's all about training the Sheep to do as they are told....Just drink the Kool-Aid....
Yes it is. It astounds me the number of Americans that have fallen for the fear tactics. The radical left has found out just how easy it was. The sheep have been well trained. Last week I actually saw a guy in a convertible, by himself, with his top down driving down the road with his mask on. What the **** is wrong with people?
 
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