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No not really. I have tried to have rational discussions with many liberals over the years, and it never works. First they deflect from anything you said. Then after that the name calling starts. Like they are a child. Its all they got, because their arguments are not based on any facts at all.
Could not agree more. Problem is some don’t realize they are liberals due to years of indoctrination. Luckily they vote republican...
 

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OP-EDJULY 24, 2020

Horowitz: Exposing the maskerade: The questions every American should be asking about indefinite mask mandates
"Just shut up and wear a mask" is not science, ordered liberty, or constitutional governance

The trope of "just shut up and wear a mask" is not science, ordered liberty, or constitutional governance. It's what they do in North Korea. We need real debate on the effectiveness of masks, the type of masks, the situations in which they are worn, the duration of time, the benchmarks that need to be met to measure effectiveness, and the process for promulgating these rules. We are no longer 24 hours into an emergency. We are four months into this virus, and it's time to function like the representative republic that we are.



POLL: Will Joe Biden still be the Democratic Party's presidential candidate when we get to November?


There are numerous political and scientific questions any thinking person should be asking at this point:

  • Why did the CDC, World Health Organization, and such luminaries as Fauci and Surgeon General Jerome Adams so emphatically dismiss the effectiveness of masks, then flip 180 degrees to the point where they shame people who don't wear them, without ever explaining what changed? While we learn more about the virus every day, the micro-biology of the particles hasn't changed, and the premise that non-professional masks worn by non-trained professionals run the risk of counterproductive cross-contamination did not change.
  • The suggestion that this is needed to protect others raises the obvious question: If me not wearing a mask transmits the virus to others who are wearing a mask, then is that not an admission that masks do not work to stop a respiratory virus that is microscopic and gets through the mask? Garbage in, garbage out. It makes no sense to suggest it doesn't penetrate the transmitter's mask from inside-out, especially with the air pressure of a cough or sneeze, but can penetrate the mask of the receiver through suspended molecules that are stagnant without pressure pushing those molecules outside-in to the receiver. If anything, the opposite should be true – it should be more effective for protection of yourself.
  • How can mask-wearing work when everyone just stores them in their pockets to collect bacteria, as our government officials predicted from day one?
  • How could kids ever keep it clean and not collect more bacteria, and where is the evidence that children are even a vector for viral transmission? My home county is mandating that even two-year-olds wear masks. How can anyone suggest that children can keep them clean, and where is the evidence that young children are a vector for transmitting the virus, when numerous studies from other countries have shown the opposite?
  • Mask-wearing in all of the major cities – from Los Angeles to Miami – has been in place and followed by pressure and community shaming for months. Compliance in most of these places has been off the charts, according to the NYT. Yet the virus is still spreading more than before the mandate. The virus is now spreading in Japan, Hong Kong, and the Philippines, which have near universal mask-wearing. At what point does the mask cult have to provide evidence of the effectiveness of these unconstitutional mandates, and at what point do benchmarks have to be met to maintain such a draconian and life-altering requirement?
  • Do masks that are continuously reused, cross-contaminated, and not properly disposed of become a trap to further transmit the virus or become retainers for other pathogens – or at the very least for bacteria, which are larger than viruses – that can harm the mask-wearer and others alike?
  • What are the known side effects to one's health after wearing these masks for hours on end in the heat, especially for children in school? Does long-term mask-wearing lower oxygen levels and compromise our immune systems?
  • Do masks cause people to touch their faces more often, the exact opposite of what was originally the desired result?
To suggest that individuals be forced into something so personal as covering their own faces indefinitely under the guise of protecting other people is a huge, dramatic change in the relationship between the government and the citizen. We should at minimum get clarity on these questions before allowing any executive authority to unilaterally decree it. Doesn't the near-universal opposition to widespread mask-wearing from these very same "experts" before the issue became political hold any weight? Doesn't their reversal demand explanation?
To this day, there has never been a clinical study with randomized controlled trials in non-health-care settings that vouch for the effectiveness of universal mask-wearing in public. All we have so far are anecdotes and laboratory filtration studies, not real human-to-human studies. When asked about conducting one, Dr. Fauci said there is no intention to do so. In fact, he went from resolutely dismissing the idea of wearing masks in March to now telling a group of Georgetown University students that he couldn't even conduct a study because he was so scared of having even a study group go without masks!





Thus, we are told we are not allowed to breathe free air without a mask – no studies allowed. Fauci's view? No votes, no hearings, no debate, no studies, no time limits, no performance benchmarks. Shut up and cover your mouth indefinitely and don't you dare express the view he used to espouse … or else.

Until now, the only time mask use has ever been a studied in a non-health-care setting showed the opposite of what the political class is saying. As Dr. Andrew Bostom of Brown University wrote earlier this month:


As doctors from the Department of Infectious Diseases and Microbiology at Children's Hospital at Westmead in Sydney, Australia, concluded in arguing against even health care workers wearing surgical masks when treating low‐risk patients, "There is no good evidence that facemasks protect the public against infection with respiratory viruses, including COVID‐19."

They explain how the way most people use masks could actually become counterproductive:


They cite a "desperate situation" in the U.S. as the impetus for the CDC's reversal on masks and note that it is based on "scant" evidence. Which is why, "In contrast, the World Health Organization currently recommends against the public routinely wearing facemasks."

Even N95s, which certainly cause people to get headaches by stifling fresh air, don't necessarily show conclusively positive outcomes. A 2019 study of 2,862 randomized participants (Radonovich, L.J. et al. (2019)) published in JAMA found, "Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators vs medical masks as worn by participants in this trial resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza."

There's a reason why as late as May, the CDC was citing the 10 randomized controlled trials that showed "no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks." Containing the virions that are emitted from the aerosols in a mask, much less a cloth that so many wear, is like locking up a bee in a jail cell. As the CDC notes, masks were not designed to protect against microbiological particles 0.1 micron in size — or one hundred-thousandth of a centimeter — but from visible contamination.


How does such a grounded observation built on 10 unrefuted clinical studies change in just a matter of weeks if not for politics? If anything, COVID-19 is more of a dry cough than the flu, which would likely produce more atomized particles that are certainly not larger than the wetter flu emissions. Yet the CDC has gone from vehemently opposing masks to promoting even cloth coverings, which everyone agrees do not filter out most particles.
Tdoyka nailed it. Mandatory mask wearing during a viral season is not based on any scientific evidence whatsoever. Forcing people. especially children, to wear masks is actually worse for their health, not better. After the death and damage these people have caused to human condition in this country (and others), in only 150 days, I cannot for the life of me figure out why so many people are more afraid of this virus than they are of the people who are behind this entire operation. These people have needlessly killed tens of thousands of our elderly people and destroyed the lives of millions in 150 days! This virus is the least of our worries. It's just a tool used by our enemies to make us afraid. If these people are successful in taking down the US election and the Republic, because of our fear of a virus that is less deadly than a normal flu season, the horrors that await our children during a Marxist takeover will make this virus seem pretty silly when the real killing begins in this country. Time to wake up and smell the coffee...this a war, and a mask ain't gonna help or hide you.
 

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Yes it is. It astounds me the number of Americans that have fallen for the fear tactics. The radical left has found out just how easy it was. The sheep have been well trained. Last week I actually saw a guy in a convertible, by himself, with his top down driving down the road with his mask on. What the **** is wrong with people?
Those willing to give up freedom for safety deserve neither...
 
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Yes it is. It astounds me the number of Americans that have fallen for the fear tactics. The radical left has found out just how easy it was. The sheep have been well trained. Last week I actually saw a guy in a convertible, by himself, with his top down driving down the road with his mask on. What the **** is wrong with people?
Yes, And all the mask wearing People, also believe the Media saying it's all Trumps Fault....
 

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No not really. I have tried to have rational discussions with many liberals over the years, and it never works. First they deflect from anything you said. Then after that the name calling starts. Like they are a child. Its all they got, because their arguments are not based on any facts at all.
Of course they are not smart enough to have there own opinion. They are scared and are willing to submit to anything as long as they get one more minute of safety guaranteed by there gooberment...
 
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Could not agree more. Problem is some don’t realize they are liberals due to years of indoctrination. Luckily they vote republican... I am only referring to the boot licker by the way...
 

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anyone else tire of the conspiracy theorists here? Russia out to get us, the liberals are out to get us, the yankees, the blacks, muslims, Mexicans, Jews, Catholics, Mormans ,Jws, heck our own elected government officials (and that includes the republicans) are out to get us. Make us wear masks to oppress us????? To control us???? What a crock. Its because of these paranoid idiots, macho chest thumpers and stupid people that wont even protect there own familys that our government stepped in and implemented these laws. You want to blame someone for these laws then you need go no further then the ones with the biggest mouths. It must be **** fearing every one and every thing around you. They reek of fear and hate and insecurity. For the most part just keyboard commandos.
 

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anyone else tire of the conspiracy theorists here? Russia out to get us, the liberals are out to get us, the yankees, the blacks, muslims, Mexicans, Jews, Catholics, Mormans ,Jws, heck our own elected government officials (and that includes the republicans) are out to get us. Make us wear masks to oppress us????? To control us???? What a crock. Its because of these paranoid idiots, macho chest thumpers and stupid people that wont even protect there own familys that our government stepped in and implemented these laws. You want to blame someone for these laws then you need go no further then the ones with the biggest mouths. It must be **** fearing every one and every thing around you. They reek of fear and hate and insecurity. For the most part just keyboard commandos.
I haven't read anywhere, where anyone said Russia, yankees, blacks, muslims, mexians, jews, catholics, Mormons, and whatever jws is, are out to get us.

"The government that stepped in to implement laws to protect us". That really is hysterical. Yes lloyd, there were democratic governors that demanded that covid patients be shoved into nursing homes where thousands died. Was that part of your delusion of the government protecting people? I can see clearly how many people willingly walked into cattle cars to be taken to their extermination.

See what I mean. No facts to back anything up just name calling. So we have paraniod idiots, macho chest thumpers, and then stupid people. Can't forget keyboard commandos. And BTW lloyd, the mask mandates are NOT laws. Please quit calling them laws. They were not created through the legislative process.
 

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As
I haven't read anywhere, where anyone said Russia, yankees, blacks, muslims, mexians, jews, catholics, Mormons, and whatever jws is, are out to get us.

"The government that stepped in to implement laws to protect us". That really is hysterical. Yes lloyd, there were democratic governors that demanded that covid patients be shoved into nursing homes where thousands died. Was that part of your delusion of the government protecting people? I can see clearly how many people willingly walked into cattle cars to be taken to their extermination.

See what I mean. No facts to back anything up just name calling. So we have paraniod idiots, macho chest thumpers, and then stupid people. Can't forget keyboard commandos. And BTW lloyd, the mask mandates are NOT laws. Please quit calling them laws. They were not created through the legislative process.
Loyd does not know **** from shinola. He was indoctrinated early in life by his mom the teacher. To much time with one handed magazines and does not study just watches msm and listens to his mommy. Loyds facts are laughable and are based on preconceived ideas without knowledge. Look up narcissist and then you will have a understanding of loyd. Needing approval is a main ingredient and if you question this individual? Just read the definition and compare it to how he responds...
 

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Discussion Starter #70
lloyd is the ultimate liberal bs-er. how did he ever become a mod. oh, i know, everyone is "entitled" to their opinion, even if it a pile of cow dung, which he does so well.
 

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gosh you guys hurt my feelings with YOUR KEYBOARD! Im so intimidated. Especially you Mule. No one on this fourm craves approval as much as you. What a hypocrite! Show me ONE post where I was looking for approval or backup. I stand on my own two feet. I think every post where someone has bashed me in the last 5 years you find your way to and join in looking for some buddies or approval. Usually stick your foot in your mouth trying to do it as you have lately with your insane prejudice posts.

This country is so bad? Why do you guys stay. Best dammed country in the world and im PROUD to live here. I like this!!

“All that was great in the past was ridiculed, condemned, combated, suppressed — only to emerge all the more powerfully, all the more triumphantly from the struggle.”

when history tells the story of this thing its going to be how our government saved us from disease and we came back better then ever. Despite the small percentage of radicals that cry like Hillary Clinton and nancy Pelosi trying to stop the government from doing its job. Trying to convince us were being taken for a ride. The definition of Conservative sure doesn't fit you guys in any way. Republican doesn't fit either because you are bashing a government that has a republican right were the buck stops. TIN FOIL HATS!

I know where my beliefs and political interests lay. You sure made my wife chuckle calling me a liberal. Getting called a liberal by you guys hurts about as much as being called unpatriotic by someone who didn't care enough about his country to leave mommy and serve in the military. :p One of the greatest quotes a president made came from a democrat believe it or not. He said "Ask not what your country can do for YOU ask what you can do for YOUR COUNTRY!

Guess I better take my trump 2020 flag down off the pole. You know the pole that flys the flag of the greatest country in the world! Turn in my nra card and destroy the no doubt more guns then you three put together. Called a liberal and not worthy to be a moderator by three people whos combined post counts don't add up to half the time ive been on here and been a moderator. I would agree though that if I was Bill would have shown me the door long ago. You guys can get the last word (or should I say personal attack) in now. Theres no hope for mule but the others might want to consider posting about guns and the outdoors till you get a few good posts rather then join in on the lynch mobs here that like to gang up on people. THERE GOING TO GET YOU BARBARA!!!!:rolleyes:
 
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