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Discussion Starter #1
A few FACTS to chew on.
Reading the Bible multiple times does not make what you read true, and it does not mean that you understand.
Reading mulitple times makes you familiar with the book.
Here is a quote from just one source on the decisions of the many, many, counsels held to determine what was to be included and excluded from what we call the Holy Bible.

"It is important to note that in 325 a great conference of Christian Theologians and religious scholars was convened in the city of Nicea under the order of Emperor Constantine to examine and define the status of these books. After thorough investigation it was decided that the Epistle of Jude was genuine and believeable. The rest of the books were declared doubtful. This was explicitly mentioned by Jerome (St. Jerome was a christian scholar and a great philosopher. He was born in 340 AD. He translated the Bible into Latin. He was a famous Bibliographer and wrote many books on Bible.) in his introduction to his book.

Another council was held in 364 in Liodicia for the same purpose. This conference of Christian Scholars and theologians not only confirmed the decesion of the council of Nicea regarding the authenticity of the Epistle of Jude but also declared that the following six books must also be added to the list of Genuine and believeable books: The Book of Eshther, The epistle of James, The second Epistle of Peter, The Second and Third Epistle of John, The Epistle of Paul to the Hebrews. This conference pronounced their decesion to the public. The book of Revelations, however remained out of acknowledged books in both the councils.
In 937 another great conference was held called the Council of Carthage. Augustine, the Grat Christian scholar, was among the one hundred and twenty six learned participants. The members of his council confirmed the decesions of the two previous councils and added the following books to the divine books: The Books of the Songs of Solomon, The Book of Tobit, The Book of Baruch, Ecclesiasticus, The First and the Second book of Macabees.

At the same time the members of the council decided that the book of Baruch was a part of the book of Jeremiah because Baruch was a deputy of Jeremiah. Therefore they did not include the name of this book in the list seperately.

Three more conferences were held after this in Trullo, Florence and Trent. The members of these meetings confirmed the decesions of the Council of Carthage. The last two councils, however, wrote the name of the book of Baruch seperately.

After these councils nearly all the books which had been doubtful among the Christians were included in the name of the acknowledged books.

THE BOOKS REJECTED BY PROTESTANTS

The status of these books remained unchanged until the Protestant Reformation. The Protestants repudiated the decesions of the councils and declared that the following books were essentially to be rejected: The book of Baruch, The book of Tobit, The letter of Jude, The Song of Solomon, Ecclesiasticus, The first and second books of Macabees. They excluded this following books from the list of acknowledged books.

Moreover, the Protestants also rejected the decesion of their forebears regarding some chapters of the book of Esther. This book consistes of 16 chapters. They decided that the first 9 chapters and the three verses from chapter 10 were essentially to be rejected."

And so it goes to this very day. :eek:
 

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Interesting stuff Jeager,
As a side note, few years back I had a guy at work loan me a book he said it was book of the bible that unfairly never made it into the official bible. This book claimed to be the writings of Jesus himself, written prior to his baptism while he lived in the desert among the essenes. I looked the book over and read parts of it. It was a study in animal rights and vegetarianism. He was disappointed that I did not embrace the beliefs and authenticity of the book. I could not because it was not cohesive with the rest of the teachings of Jesus or the bible. I deemed it apocryphal. I did find it enlightening that he believed it, I guess because it validated his beliefs.

Elwood
 

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One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on
inside
all people.

He said, "My son, the battle is between two "wolves" inside us all. One is
Evil. It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self
pity,
guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

The other is Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility,
kindness,
benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather:
"Which wolf wins?"

When I die, I want to die like my Grandfather who died peacefully in his
sleep...... Not screaming, like the rest of the passengers in his car.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
:-D IntrepidWizard :-D
Greeeeeeeaat story! And to think many people today think the native Americans were savages.
Pretty good philosophy for a bunch of pagans, what?

Elwood: I've often wondered why Jesus never wrote anything down, and if He did why it wasn't guarded and preserved?
On the other hand, the fact being that Jesus was a Jew, oral tradition was the basis for communication.
For hundreds of years after the death of Jesus oral communication was the preferred method of preaching what we call the Gospel.
There was no New testament Bible, it did not exist, so for hundreds of years christians were spreading the Gospel word of mouth.
Wow, there's accuracy, what?
This is but one reason why the Bible as we know it cannot be the inerrant word of God.
If so why was it written and rewritten so many times?
And we still don't have it right.
I believe it's the word of God as best we can know it.
The essense is there.
Everything else is superfluous.
 

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We also have descripencies with the Dead Sea Scrolls which would be more correct than the KJ version and we leave out the Egyptian leather scrolls and the Damascas Documents and people forget about Damascus.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
IntrepidWizard said:
We also have descripencies with the Dead Sea Scrolls which would be more correct than the KJ version and we leave out the Egyptian leather scrolls and the Damascas Documents and people forget about Damascus.
Yup! You're right on all accounts.
A while back I dug up a lot of recent information on the Dead Sea Scrolls which are in the custody of the Isreali Department of Antiquities.
It's suspected only about 40% of what they know has been released to the public world.
In general people believe only what they want to believe.
Often they believe what is easy and requires less thought.
It's easy to say "it's in the Bible" and accept it as the last word when it clearly isn't.
 

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Jaeger-
Look up the definitions of facts and opinions. Opinions do not have to contain facts, facts do not have need of opinions.
What books were they convened to discuss???
This should provide with some facts.
Blessings
 

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Discussion Starter #8
williamlayton said:
Jaeger-
Look up the definitions of facts and opinions. Opinions do not have to contain facts, facts do not have need of opinions.
What books were they convened to discuss???
This should provide with some facts.
Blessings
Bill: I know the difference between a 'fact' and an 'opinion'.
In my post I quoted some of the books that were discussed.
All the books were discussed, as in talked about.
Your post is vague. Wha'cher point????
What are you asking?
 

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The Canon had been determined before--there were certain books, some of which you brought up, which were looked at and determined to be Gnostic, forgeries and a couple added to canon.
Blessings
 

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IntrepidWizard said:
One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on
inside
all people.

He said, "My son, the battle is between two "wolves" inside us all. One is
Evil. It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self
pity,
guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

The other is Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility,
kindness,
benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather:
"Which wolf wins?"

When I die, I want to die like my Grandfather who died peacefully in his
sleep...... Not screaming, like the rest of the passengers in his car.

.
And the grandfather answered, "It is the wolf you feed that wins".


.....................TM7
 

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Discussion Starter #11
williamlayton said:
The Canon had been determined before--there were certain books, some of which you brought up, which were looked at and determined to be Gnostic, forgeries and a couple added to canon.
Blessings
Canon determined by whom? Which counsel? During what century?
All the so called "books" were discussed.
Didja know that ONLY the book of Paul ( really Paul's letters ) were thought to be the ONLY works to be followed for quite some time?
For a time Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, were NOT considered worthy of Canonization.
Really there is a lot people don't know that is available now for your edification.
I have an open mind and keep reading.
Doubt I'll go to **** for it.
 
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