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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Found this on another site, and thought it was an interesting comparison. Its California specific, but it might apply elsewhere. What do you think?

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You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families
Have two parents, two children, and live in California.


Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes
$25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.


Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number,
And gets paid $15.00 per hour cash "under the table".


Ready? Now pay attention...


Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00
Per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has
$31,231.00.


Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or
$31,200..00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has
$31,200.00.


Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for
His family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now
Has $24,031.00.


Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and
Local clinics at a cost of $000 per year. Jose Illegal still has
$31,200.00.


Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or
Welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per
Year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.


Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps
And welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.


Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe
Legal now has $9,631.00.


Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose
Illegal pays $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal
Still has $ 31,200.00.


Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for insurance. Joe Legal
Now has $7,231.00.


Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has
$31,200.00.


Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.


Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities,
Gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month.


Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after
Work.


Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.


Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe
Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get
A government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after
School ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.


Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services,
But Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.
 

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yepper, you got that right. and here in michigan its so bad a white, middle working age male cant hardly get a job that pays the bills.
seems like the state and the feds want a country full of illegals,for whatever reason. not someone who can think, act and do for themselves.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
searlock said:
here is another one, billy joe bob has a bass boat and a 4X4 truck a wife lerlene and two plus kids. as long as billy bob can afford what he has got things will continue.
too true, too true. I am surrounded by 20 something troops who believe they have a right to a bass boat and a 4 x 4 right NOW, when their folks worked a lifetime for it.

I think, however, that that is a separate issue from the issue of illegal immigrant benefits.
 

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Joe legal also pays for his kids to go to collage, while Joe Illegal's kids get to go for free.
Punish the productive, its the good ole American way. Make more money to try and better yourself, and you get to pay for more Joe Illegal's.
 

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well tn i don't know why the democrat and republican powers want them here but it is clear to me that they do. if they wanted to stop jose from being here they could. if they wanted to stop them from feeding off of us they could do that.
 

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If the point is that there is an illegal immigration problem in this country, the post is spot on. No question about it, the borders are a joke, and the current system in this country is a disaster.

If the point is that the individual things listed are accurate, I would hope you know that they are not. Not saying your thought process is bad, but I hate to see misconceptions continued out because of a political ideology. Facts should not need to be fictional to win a debate.

http://isaac-project.blogspot.com/2009/07/another-misleading-email-joe-legal-v.html
 

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Ok, sorry I'm wrong about the free college.

dukkillr, you caught me with a miss spelled word. Good job!! Must be your lawyer instinct. Is perfect spelling a requirement here? If it is I'll try to be more careful next time.
 

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Duck has never worked construction next to a mexican. I have, and they all have that infernal grin on their faces. Obviosly prts uf thet emeal weer eggsagrated, butt thu massaage was truu. Try finding a job in the real world duck!
 

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1. "Joe Legal" works in construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with payroll taxes deducted.... "Jose Illegal" also works in construction, has "NO" Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Response: The email begins with the fallacy that illegal aliens are being paid off the books. According to the 2005 Economic Report of the President, more than “half of undocumented immigrants are believed to be working ‘on the books,’ so they contribute to the tax rolls but are ineligible for almost all Federal public assistance programs and most major joint Federal-state programs.” You can view the report here.[/color]


More than half???? So lets say 45% only work off the books.


2. Joe Legal...$25.00 per hour x 40 hours $1000.00 per week, $52,000 per year Now take 30% away for state federal tax. Joe Legal now has $31,231.00. Jose Illegal...$15.00 per hour x 40 hours $600.00 per week, $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes... Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.


Response: It is simply false to say illegal aliens do not pay taxes. The IRS collects income tax from all aliens- irrespective of their legal status- who earn income in the United States. Taxes are generally collected through payroll withholdings and submitted tax returns. Some aliens, including undocumented aliens, are not eligible to receive a social security number for work purposes. Nevertheless, if they work, they will accrue federal income tax liability under the IRS code. To facilitate compliance with income tax law, the IRS developed the ITIN. You can read more about ITINs here. As of June 2006, the IRS had issued more than 7 million ITINs. Read more here. The IRS states that the tax return filing compliance rate for ITIN holders is about 75% . Here at page 52. Illegal aliens also pay taxes through payroll withholding with false, fraudulent, or stolen Social Security Numbers. This money is kept by the government in a “suspense file” and not returned to the illegal alien. The Social Security Administration states that these files represented $56.1 billion in earnings and $7 billion in social security payroll taxes. [/color]


WOrking with a fraudulent SS number with a large number of deductions listed on your W4 will drop your taxes to nothing until questioned, then it is a matter of obtaining employment under a new fraudulent SS number.


3. Joe Legal pays Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage $1000.00 per month [$12,000.00 per year]. Joe Legal now has $19,231.00. Jose Illegal has full Medical and Dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.


Response: Ostensibly, the author of this email is referencing Medi-Cal. According to its official government website, “Medi-Cal is California's Medicaid program. This is a public health insurance program which provides needed health care services for low-income individuals including families with children, seniors, persons with disabilities, foster care, pregnant women, and low income people with specific diseases such as tuberculosis, breast cancer or HIV/AIDS. Medi-Cal is financed equally by the State and federal government.” Eligibility for this program is based upon income. According to the guidance letter for the California Department of Human Services all aliens (legal or otherwise) must go through a verification process and only aliens lawfully residing in California may receive full benefits. Illegal aliens can only obtain emergency service and some child delivery services. Interestingly, it is quite possible that neither Joe nor Jose could qualify for Medi-Cal because of their[/color]


If Jose goes to the hospital and use the afore mentioned false personal information, who will pay the bill?



4. Joe Legal makes too much money is not eligible for Food Stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays for food. $1,000.00 per month [$12,000.00 per year]. Joe Legal now has $ 7,231.00. Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for Food Stamps and Welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.


Response: Illegal immigrants are not eligible for federal entitlement welfare programs like Food Stamps. Indeed, even legal immigrants are barred from all federal means-tested public benefits for five years by the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996, Pub. L. No. 104-193, 110 Stat. 2105 (Aug. 22, 1996) (codified as 8 USC §§1601 et seq.). [/color]


Human services is not allowed to question or look into the immigration status of applicants. Remember, Jose has false personal information saying he is a citacen.


5. Joe Legal pays rent. $1,000.00 per month [$12,000.00 per year]. Joe Legal is now in the hole minus (-) $4,769.00. Jose Illegal receives a $500 per month Federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal pays rent. $500.00 per month (section 8 housing). $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $25,200.00.


Response: Unfortunately, this bears repeating. Illegal immigrants are not eligible for Federal welfare benefits like Section 8. [/color]


Refer to the answer for number 4.


7. Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored breakfast & lunch, and they also qualify to be "bused to school" at tax payer expense.


Response: According to the USDA Eligibility Manual for School Meals, these types of school lunches are available for children that are: 1) members of a household that gets welfare; 2) enrolled in Head Start because of low income; 3) homeless, 4) migrants; or 5) runaways. We know nothing about Jose’s children given the fact pattern. Assuming however, they were born in the United States, they are U.S. Citizens and, provided they meet the guidelines, they are eligible for such programs. But according to the fact pattern given, neither Joe nor Jose would be eligible for free or reduced school lunches under the latest guidelines. Also, since this fact pattern is in California, it is very likely that any bus services are going to be sharply curtailed because of budget cuts.[/color]


Again refer to the answer for number 4.


8. Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children have to find a way to get to school and go home after school as, "latch-key kids" with no adult supervision.

Response: The voters of California approved all types of after-school programs for all children.[/color]


Why would Joes kids need ESL classes?


9. Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same Police and Fire Services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.


Response: This is false. Joe and Jose paid for these local services through their property, sales, and income taxes. Also, the fact pattern tells us that both Jose and Joe are renters (See No. 5), thus their landlord factored in property taxes into their rent.[/color]


Jose is eligable for a property tax refund in some states.


10. Jose Illegal can send most of his money back home to build a new home for retirement, and have money to buy a new truck (and still have Medi-Cal benefits while living in a foreign country; until someone turns him in to authorities....if they ever find out!!) Joe will be lucky if he has any money for retirement, a new vehicle, medical/dental benefits, or a place to live.


Response: According to the Pew Hispanic Center, 21% of unauthorized aliens in the United States are poor. Thus, it does not appear that while Jose is working construction and supporting a wife and two kids that he is building a “retirement home.” Also, as noted above Jose Illegal would not be eligible for full Medi-Cal benefits.[/color]


So 79% are not poor!


12. PS: You forgot, Jose illegal's wife claims "single, no head of Household" and collects additional benefits that Joe legal's wife cannot claim. No wonder our country is in trouble!! Think about it!


Response: The fact pattern begins to fall apart with its own distortions. First it claims that Jose does not pay taxes (No. 2), then it claims that “Jose illegal’s [sic] wife” files taxes as “single, no head of Household.” There is no such category. According to the IRS, there are five filing statuses: 1) single, 2) married filing jointly, 3) married filing separately, 4) Head of household; and 5) Qualifying widow(er) with Dependant Child. The Head of Household status usually grants a lower tax rate and higher standard deduction than the single or married filing separately status. Jose’s wife could file as Head of Household- or Joe’s wife for that matter- if they were: 1) unmarried or considered unmarried on the last day of the year; 2) paid more than half the cost of keeping up a home for the year; and a 3) “qualifying person” lived with them. If she met the eligibility, then she is lawfully claiming the status. If not, then she would be filing a fraudulent tax return and committing a crime.[/color]


And of course, Jose, who ILLEGALLY entered our country and if working on the books has ILLEGAL personal identification Who ILLEGALLY claims 9 dependents on his W4 cares about the law?



http://isaac-project.blogspot.com/ How about we read into every other story on this great source of information. Take a look does it look just a tiny bit slanted?
 

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mirage1988 said:
That is true- How about the rest of it? Have you ever had to compete for a job against someone that is happy working for less than your break-even point?
Are you just trying to pick a fight? I mowed lawns to pay for a crappy old jeep and gas in high school. I also learned that I needed to get good grades, to get a good scholarship, to a good school, because I didn't want to be in that line of work for the rest of my life. Flame away, I won't apologize for working hard to find a job where I can use my brain and have a secure future for myself and my family.

That, of course, has no bearing on the accuracy of the initial post.
 

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Billy, Having some experience and knowledge of the illegal situation in California I'd say the post is fairly accurate. Few illegals there pay any taxes; most are picked daily from various sites wwhere they hang out looking for work. This is also true to a large extent here in Texas especially in the construction and agricultural business. Of course, I think it depends largely on where they are located and WHO they work for. Most employers are gun shy and try to stick as close to the rules as they can to prevent big fines from government, but even those illegals that are paying taxes are likely using a fake SS.
 

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mirage1988 said:
No-not tryin to pick a fight. Hopefully your brain doesn't fail you as your heart has. How can a midwestern boy defend the mexican invasion? This of course had no bearing on the original post.
I most assuredly AM NOT. What do I need to say? "I think we should put all mexicans on a boat and nuke it?" "We should make all illegal immigrants listen to Celine Dion sing the French national anthem?" "I think we should use illegal border crossers for target practice with the unmanned drones!" You're simply making things up and claiming I believe them. Please read what I said. I am not supporting any type of illegal immigration or individual immigrants. What I am saying is that the facts are wrong but the sentiment is right. Do you not understand what I wrote or did you chose not to read it? I can quote myself if you need.

Don't just assign me opinions so you can argue with them. Like most around here, I'm more than capable of putting forth my own opinions, and I don't need you to do it for me.
 
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