Graybeard Outdoors banner
1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
86 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
To obey God's biblical commands in a proper attitude, such as His command to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy, is not legalism.
Throughout this chapter, references are made to the legalistic approach of religious authorities who accused Jesus Christ of breaking the Sabbath. But what does the term "legalism" mean? A dictionary definition of legalism is "a strict, literal or excessive conformity to the law or to a religious or moral code."
A popular meaning attached to the word today is that any form of biblical law-keeping is legalism and therefore to be avoided. The word is used pejoratively, especially against such practices as keeping the Sabbath or adhering to other laws given in the Old Testament.
However, this use of the word is incorrect. It is not legalistic to obey God's laws correctly. To be legalistic is to misuse God's laws in a way never intended.
The Pharisees' interpretations undermined God's law
The Pharisees, an excessively strict branch of Judaism whose religious interpretations dominated popular thinking at the time of Christ, were examples of this. They added many of their own humanly devised rules and regulations to God's laws, which had the effect of misrepresenting and misapplying them.
Their added interpretations of God's laws so distorted the original purpose that they rendered them ineffective (Matthew:15:6), nullifying them. By following the Pharisees' interpretations and edicts, the people were no longer following God's law (John:7:19).
This mistaken view of God's law led many to reject Jesus Christ as the promised Messiah, even though that very law had prophesied of Him (John:5:39-40 ; Luke:24:44).
This was why Christ so strongly condemned the lack of understanding and hypocrisy of the religious leaders of His time. He taught a return to the correct teaching and practice of God's laws according to their original intent and purpose, and also that He was the promised Messiah.
Paul condemned the perverting of the law
The apostle Paul also wrote extensively against those who would pervert the proper use of God's law. This is particularly apparent in the book of Galatians. What Paul addressed was not the correct keeping of God's law, which he himself elsewhere upheld (Romans:3:31; 7:12, 14, 22, 25), but a claim that justification (the forgiveness and restoration of a sinner to a state of righteousness) could be achieved by circumcision and strict observance of the law.
Some false teachers (Galatians:2:4; 5:10, 12; 6:12-13) subverted the Galatian churches by wrongly insisting that circumcision and the keeping of the law were sufficient requirements for justification and salvation, apart from faith in Jesus Christ.
Paul condemned this erroneous teaching, noting that obedience to the law had never made eternal life possible (Galatians:3:21). He made it clear that justification—being made righteous in God's eyes and thus gaining access to eternal life—is only available through Jesus Christ (Galatians:2:16; 3:1-3, 10-11, 22; 5:1-4).
Paul made it clear that forgiveness of sin requires a sacrifice, and even the strictest observance of the law cannot remove the need for that sacrifice.
However, the law of God remains the righteous standard by which all mankind will be judged (James:2:8, 12). The law is not annulled or abolished by faith in Christ (Romans:3:31), as many falsely believe. Instead, said Paul, the law's proper use is established by faith.
When Solomon concluded that the whole duty of man is to "fear God and keep His commandments" (Ecclesiastes:12:13), he expressed the enduring purpose of God for all mankind. The apostle John agreed when he concluded that if we love God we will keep His commandments (1 John:5:3).
Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to "sin no more" (John:8:11)—in other words, to uphold God's law! He told the rich young man, who came to Him asking what he could do to have eternal life, "If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew:19:17).
Biblical examples of legalism
So, then, what does the Bible tell us about legalism?
To substitute any humanly devised laws for God's laws, as the Pharisees did, is legalism.
To rely on keeping any law in the belief that it will make one righteous in God's eyes, instead of faith in Christ, is legalism.
If all one focuses on is obedience to law apart from the motivation of pleasing God, loving God and loving neighbor, this distorts the purpose of the law (Matthew:22:36-40
; Romans:13:10) and is legalism.
If we believe that any keeping of God's law can earn our salvation as our deserved reward, we are guilty of legalism.
Technical obedience, or strict obedience to the exact letter of the law while searching for ways to get around the underlying purpose and intent of the law, is legalism.
Proper obedience to God's law is not legalism
But Jesus Christ and the remainder of the Bible make one thing perfectly clear: Proper obedience to the law of God is not legalism.
After conversion, a Christian is given a much fuller understanding of the purpose and intent of God's law. He understands the importance of faith in the person and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. He is given a more complete understanding of why he is to be obedient. But it remains for him to obey, with God's help. That is not legalism.
To obey in a proper attitude God's biblical commands, such as His command to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy, is not legalism. Don't allow anyone to deceive you with such a false notion, which is itself a contradiction of Jesus Christ's own command (Matthew:5:19).
If one would read Deuteronomy 28:1-68 you will see the FATHER never promise us salvation. The promise was if we would be obedient to his commandments we would have a bless life. This is not legalism this is obedient to the WORDS of the FATHER
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,172 Posts
Christianity is based on salvation by grace through faith in Jesus, not of works (Eph 2:8,9). Adding anything to that for salvation is another 'gospel' of legalism.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,172 Posts
Something really important happened on the cross. The old testament/covenant was fully completed; it wasn't not annulled or set aside, it was fully completed. By his death on the cross, Jesus brought man a new covenant, a 'new' system of eternal salvation by grace through faith in the atoning work of Messiah Jesus. Those who still strive to add something of man to obtain grace (grace is the unworthy, unearned, undeserved favor of God) destroys the very meaning of grace and diminishes the work of Jesus.

Adding anything to the imputed perfection of Jesus' sinless record is automatically a gospel of works - and that's legalism. Legalism is a form of self righteousness and it doesn't work. Some people just can't grasp the fact that Jesus was and remains our own blood sacrifice, we need no other. The gift of unearned grace and the imputed righteousness of Jesus, not works, is the working message of the New Covenant gospel. If we have to earn salvation there is no meaningful value to Jesus' suffering and we remain lost under the Old Testament.

What you have not yet seen in the scriptures on judgments is the message that those judgments are NOT to determine heaven or ****, that's already done (John 3:18). The judgments you are concerned about are for rewards to the saved or the degree of punishment for the lost for deeds which both have done in the flesh.

You really need to get a grip on what the New Testament and Christianity is all about.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,821 Posts
I enjoyed reading those posts wncchester, right to the point.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,740 Posts
So, then, what does the Bible tell us about legalism?
To substitute any humanly devised laws for God's laws, as the Pharisees did, is legalism.
To rely on keeping any law in the belief that it will make one righteous in God's eyes, instead of faith in Christ, is legalism.
If all one focuses on is obedience to law apart from the motivation of pleasing God, loving God and loving neighbor, this distorts the purpose of the law (Matthew:22:36-40; Romans:13:10) and is legalism.
If we believe that any keeping of God's law can earn our salvation as our deserved reward, we are guilty of legalism.
Technical obedience, or strict obedience to the exact letter of the law while searching for ways to get around the underlying purpose and intent of the law, is legalism.
Proper obedience to God's law is not legalism

I can't find anything to disagree with in this portion, since you indicate faith in Christ is what makes one righteous in God's eyes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,172 Posts
Weaver - Technical obedience, or strict obedience to the exact letter of the law while searching for ways to get around the underlying purpose and intent of the law, is legalism. Proper obedience to God's law is not legalism

I don't get what you mean about anyone searching for a way around anything but it becomes legalism if there is an effort to condition salvation on that obedience ... which is exactly what you have repeatedly attempted to connect in the past.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
86 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Some have miss the point.Salvation come from faith. If one thinks he or she will receive salvation threw following TORAH it's not going to happen.The law was never about salvation. But we are to be OBEDIENT to the FATHER WORDS. Now you say things have change after the Son crucifixion,your statement is true. What was nail to the cross was the PENALTY of SIN only. The WORDS never change it never goes away.When the Son comes back and reigns for a 1000 years what laws do you think we will under? Bottom line is, If we LOVE the FATHER we should be OBEDIENT to his WORDS and if we are this can not be Legalism. wncchester, To let you know and others I do not follow christianity it's doctrine. I only follow his words no mans doctrine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,172 Posts
Ahhhhh ... YOU don't follow "man's" doctrine? Seems you follow your own "man's" doctrine/inventions quite happily; little of what you have revealed is sound doctrine from the Bible. If YOU really think we'll follow the Law, as such, in the millennium, so be it - but you're wrong.

It would be good if you would actually read the Law and note that most of it is taken up with temple worship, various Sabbaths, land marks, Jubilee years, care of the poor, debt relief, assorted feasts, the priesthood, blood sacrifices, scape goats, stoning of the guilty, how to combat disease, etc. If that is not part of what you mean when you say "the Law" then you don't know what the Law is. If you do think all that will still apply in the millennium you're very wrong. If you know the Law, as such, will NOT apply then by your constant harping on following the Law you're being legalistic and quite dishonest even by your own doctrines.

I didn't say anything changed at the cross but Jesus did and I recognize what HE said. That's not a bad doctrine to follow.

You've not yet answered the oft repeated question, "What do you think constitutes the Torah." ???


I wonder what you think this verse means: (Colossians 2:16) - Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an Holy day, or of the New moon, or of the Sabbath days:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,977 Posts
TWW,

In your understanding and following how do you account for Sin in your life? Do you consider that you follow the Law perfectly? Does it matter that you follow perfectly? If you don't follow the Law perfectly or fail at any part what do you understand as your guilt or punishment? Is your ultimate view of salvation that it is based upon your performance and ability to keep the law?

lc
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
603 Posts
TheWeavingWelshman said:
To obey God's biblical commands in a proper attitude, such as His command to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy, is not legalism.
Throughout this chapter, references are made to the legalistic approach of religious authorities who accused Jesus Christ of breaking the Sabbath. But what does the term "legalism" mean? A dictionary definition of legalism is "a strict, literal or excessive conformity to the law or to a religious or moral code."
A popular meaning attached to the word today is that any form of biblical law-keeping is legalism and therefore to be avoided. The word is used pejoratively, especially against such practices as keeping the Sabbath or adhering to other laws given in the Old Testament.
However, this use of the word is incorrect. It is not legalistic to obey God's laws correctly. To be legalistic is to misuse God's laws in a way never intended.
The Pharisees' interpretations undermined God's law
The Pharisees, an excessively strict branch of Judaism whose religious interpretations dominated popular thinking at the time of Christ, were examples of this. They added many of their own humanly devised rules and regulations to God's laws, which had the effect of misrepresenting and misapplying them.
Their added interpretations of God's laws so distorted the original purpose that they rendered them ineffective (Matthew:15:6), nullifying them. By following the Pharisees' interpretations and edicts, the people were no longer following God's law (John:7:19).
This mistaken view of God's law led many to reject Jesus Christ as the promised Messiah, even though that very law had prophesied of Him (John:5:39-40 ; Luke:24:44).
This was why Christ so strongly condemned the lack of understanding and hypocrisy of the religious leaders of His time. He taught a return to the correct teaching and practice of God's laws according to their original intent and purpose, and also that He was the promised Messiah.
Paul condemned the perverting of the law
The apostle Paul also wrote extensively against those who would pervert the proper use of God's law. This is particularly apparent in the book of Galatians. What Paul addressed was not the correct keeping of God's law, which he himself elsewhere upheld (Romans:3:31; 7:12, 14, 22, 25), but a claim that justification (the forgiveness and restoration of a sinner to a state of righteousness) could be achieved by circumcision and strict observance of the law.
Some false teachers (Galatians:2:4; 5:10, 12; 6:12-13) subverted the Galatian churches by wrongly insisting that circumcision and the keeping of the law were sufficient requirements for justification and salvation, apart from faith in Jesus Christ.
Paul condemned this erroneous teaching, noting that obedience to the law had never made eternal life possible (Galatians:3:21). He made it clear that justification—being made righteous in God's eyes and thus gaining access to eternal life—is only available through Jesus Christ (Galatians:2:16; 3:1-3, 10-11, 22; 5:1-4).
Paul made it clear that forgiveness of sin requires a sacrifice, and even the strictest observance of the law cannot remove the need for that sacrifice.
However, the law of God remains the righteous standard by which all mankind will be judged (James:2:8, 12). The law is not annulled or abolished by faith in Christ (Romans:3:31), as many falsely believe. Instead, said Paul, the law's proper use is established by faith.
When Solomon concluded that the whole duty of man is to "fear God and keep His commandments" (Ecclesiastes:12:13), he expressed the enduring purpose of God for all mankind. The apostle John agreed when he concluded that if we love God we will keep His commandments (1 John:5:3).
Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to "sin no more" (John:8:11)—in other words, to uphold God's law! He told the rich young man, who came to Him asking what he could do to have eternal life, "If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew:19:17).
Biblical examples of legalism
So, then, what does the Bible tell us about legalism?
To substitute any humanly devised laws for God's laws, as the Pharisees did, is legalism.
To rely on keeping any law in the belief that it will make one righteous in God's eyes, instead of faith in Christ, is legalism.[/color]
If all one focuses on is obedience to law apart from the motivation of pleasing God, loving God and loving neighbor, this distorts the purpose of the law (Matthew:22:36-40
; Romans:13:10) and is legalism.
If we believe that any keeping of God's law can earn our salvation as our deserved reward, we are guilty of legalism[/color].
Technical obedience, or strict obedience to the exact letter of the law while searching for ways to get around the underlying purpose and intent of the law, is legalism.
Proper obedience to God's law is not legalism
But Jesus Christ and the remainder of the Bible make one thing perfectly clear: Proper obedience to the law of God is not legalism.
After conversion, a Christian is given a much fuller understanding of the purpose and intent of God's law. He understands the importance of faith in the person and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. He is given a more complete understanding of why he is to be obedient. But it remains for him to obey, with God's help. That is not legalism.
To obey in a proper attitude God's biblical commands, such as His command to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy, is not legalism. Don't allow anyone to deceive you with such a false notion, which is itself a contradiction of Jesus Christ's own command (Matthew:5:19).
If one would read Deuteronomy 28:1-68 you will see the FATHER never promise us salvation. The promise was if we would be obedient to his commandments we would have a bless life. This is not legalism this is obedient to the WORDS of the FATHER
The red highlighted is the short version. You can not work/earn your way to heaven acceptance of Christ as ultimate sacrifice is the only way
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
86 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
littlecanoe, Salvation is not base upon performance of his instructions, One should as a believer in his words walk within his words. He tell us over and over, "If you love me keep my commandments.

If one would truly study the first five books of his words then one would learn the true meaning of the whole bible. To make it easy for all the answer is LOVE...And because of
the SON love, He has giving me his gift to be able to walk within his words (instructions) and to fail without the fear of the penalty of his instructions.(DEATH) I do this out of LOVE for him, NOT FOR SALVATION. Hebrews 10:26-30 26 For if we deliberately continue to sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 But only the terrifying prospect of judgment, of raging fire that will consume the enemies. 28 Someone who disregards the instructions of Moshe is put to death without mercy on the words of two or three witnesses. 29 Think how much worse will be the punishment deserved by someone who has trampled underfoot the son of HAYAH; who has treated as something common the blood of the covenant which made him holy; and who has insulted the Spirit, giver of HAYAH'S grace!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
86 Posts
williamlayton,What does scriptures tell us? Salvation is given from the SON not by works.But the SON tells us to follow HIS commandments all threw the NT. You cant have it both way's.
Hebrews 10:26-30New International Version (NIV) [sup]26 [/sup]If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, [sup]27 [/sup]but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. [sup]28 [/sup]Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. [sup]29 [/sup]How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? [sup]30 [/sup]For we know him w
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44,135 Posts
From Weaver;
" If one would truly study the first five books of his words then one would learn the true meaning of the whole bible."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In some cases one can get a grasp of the whole NT in just one verse..For instance (John 3:16)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,405 Posts
Explain hat the Law and Prophets have to do with salvation when the Law and Prophets only speak of sin and keeping the law ? The NT speaks of the law being fulfilled and only unbelievers in ****.

Blessings
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,208 Posts
Christianity is based on salvation by grace through faith in Jesus, not of works (Eph 2:8,9). Adding anything to that for salvation is another 'gospel' of legalism.

Jesus disagrees. He said we are saved not by faith but by our works. Legalism is ritualism (acts). I think a lot of 'Christians' are in the wrong pew. They belong over in the synagogue with Moses not in Christ's church.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,208 Posts
It was NOT completed on the cross. It was replaced by Jesus' pronouncement of the New Covenant. Furthermore blood sacrifice had already been abolished before Jesus' death. Salvation does not come from Christ's death but from the words he brought. We are saved by The Word not by the death.


Jesus also taught that we and we alone are responsible for our behavior. We are not to be held accountable for the transgressions of others nor were they to be held accountable for ours. Jesus proclaimed a meritocracy where everyone would be judged on their own merit.


Jesus directed his apostle's to go forth and spread the word. He instructed the to teach only that which they had heard him say and seen him do. He also cautioned them that many would come after he was gone who would teach things that he had not taught and we were not to believe them.


Unfortunately many came after Jesus. especially Paul and John of Revelations teaching doctrine which Jesus had not taught. Today many of the apostates have fallen into the trap of placing their trust in these imposters above that in Jesus himself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,172 Posts
It was NOT completed on the cross. .... blood sacrifice had already been abolished before Jesus' death.
You must be kidding! Ignoring the rest of what you have scrambled in that post, that one point is easiest to refute; blood sacrifice was by no means abolished and it did not stop until the destruction of the temple and Jewish diaspora in AD 70.

However, Jesus death was the last meaningful blood sacrifice, the one all the previous others pointed to. So, yes, Jesus' death indeed completed what the Law of Moses and the results of human sin and death was all about; Jesus completed the Mosaic Covenant and instituted the Covenant of Grace when he said from the cross, "It is finished!" and died.
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top