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In the sense that he managed to hold the country together when it was trying to tear itself apart he may very well have been. Of course, if britain had won the revolutionary war and crushed the colonies we might very well have some tory saying king george was the best king we ever had. Hmmmmm.........
 

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I don't think so.
Presidents, with few exceptions, that get assasinated in office become marters. That is what happened with Lincoln.

Look at Kennedy, he was not our best president, he got us into Viet Nam. He created the Bay of Pigs, then failed to back the troops that went in, letting them get wipped out. Put to the general publid he was as great as Lincoln

To this day I do not believe Oswald shot him. Especially since I own one of those Carcano Carbines like he was supposed to have used. If the man was such an expert as we are led to believe he would not have chosen a Carcano, when other far superior guns were availiable for the same money.
 

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I don't see "Best Leader" - the country split up over his election. Was he "Great"? Well, big things happened during his years, that's for sure. Were they good things? People are still arguing over it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The country split up because Lincoln had established himself as an anti slavery candidate in the Lincoln/Douglas debates and Lincoln'Coopers Union speech. Would he have been greater if he had endorsed slavery in order to appease the South? He did try to appease the South to the extent he admitted he could not legally end slavery, but he opposed the expansion of slavery into the territories. For the South, simply saying slavery was wrong was enough to offend.
 

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Lincoln was the best. The best as violating the constitution and killing his fellow Americans. 500,000 Americans lost their lives because of him. He was the best all right.......... ::)
 

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Lincoln saw the Civil War as part of a greater world war. In the case, of principlely North America re-conquest by the French and English. This war was engineered. Fortunately, Russia came to aid of Lincoln to repell British and French imperialist using the war as a focal point for their designs. The 'bankers' and other protagionist saw the opportunity of destroying the Constitution at this time, even at Lincoln's hands during a national emergency they concocted. Those people living in Alaska can thank Lincoln for their state and territory, because it was his Sec of State, Seward, that forged the Alaskan Purchase....there should be a national Linclon/Seward Day in Alaska once a year! Lincoln tried to keep 'carpet baggers' out of the South during Restoration....one reason he was shot....that and like Kennedy he created real US currency, green back dollars separate from the debt creators. ....
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...TM7
 

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TM7 said:
Lincoln saw the Civil War as part of a greater world war. In the case, of principlely North America re-conquest by the French and English. This war was engineered. Fortunately, Russia came to aid of Lincoln to repell British and French imperialist using the war as a focal point for their designs. The 'bankers' and other protagionist saw the opportunity of destroying the Constitution at this time, even at Lincoln's hands during a national emergency they concocted. Those people living in Alaska can thank Lincoln for their state and territory, because it was his Sec of State, Seward, that forged the Alaskan Purchase....there should be a national Linclon/Seward Day in Alaska once a year! Lincoln tried to keep 'carpet baggers' out of the South during Restoration....one reason he was shot....that and like Kennedy he created real US currency, green back dollars separate from the debt creators. ....
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...TM7
It does not change the facts of the crimes he commited against our constitution and the people of this country.
 

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How about sending armed troops to war against the southern states. How about throwing journalists in jail because he did not like their stories. How about suspending habitues corpus. Here is a list:



#1 Lincoln ordered the military blockade of Southern ports.

This an act of war.

Only Congress can do that.

At that time Lincoln certainly violated the US Constitution.


#2 Lincoln ordered hundreds of Northern newspapers who dared to speak out against him to be shut down. And their owners and editors were arrested[/color] for disloyalty.

This is a clear violation of the 1st Amendment of the Constitution[/color] that Lincoln swore to uphold.


#3 Lincoln ordered the arrest of Ohio Congressman Clement Vallandigham for the crime of speaking out against him.

Can you imagine that?


#4 Ex parte Merryman,

Chief Justice of the US Roger Taney, sitting as a judge of the United States Circuit Court for the District[/color] of Maryland, ruled that Lincoln had violated the US Constitution when he illegally suspended the Writ of Habeas Corpus[/color].

After hearing this Lincoln signed an arrest warrant to have the Chief Justice of the US arrested.


#5 US Constitution Article lll...

Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them.

Lincoln committed treason.

Lincoln waged war upon his own country. Unless one considers secession legal and the Confederacy was a sovereign nation.


#6 Lincoln sent Union troops door to door in areas of Maryland, a Union state, to confiscate weapons.

This is a clear violation of the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution[/color].

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Many Constitutional violations against Maryland

'Maryland my Maryland' was published calling Lincoln a tyrant and a despot and a vandal.

Lincoln as already mentioned, trashed the Constitution by suspending the Writ of Habeas Corpus and sending troops door to door confiscating weapons in areas of Maryland.

Maryland was a Union state.

Lincoln ordered the arrest of thousands Marylanders for the crime of 'suspected Southern sympathies'.


Lincoln ordered the arrest of US Congressman Henry May representing Maryland. #7

Lincoln also had arrested...

Most of the Maryland State Legislature #8

Most of the Baltimore city council #9

The police commissioner of Baltimore #10

The mayor of Baltimore #11

Thousands of prominent Maryland citizens. #12

These people were arrested and held in Military prisons, without trial, some of them for years.

This trashing of the Constitution upset many Marylanders. One of them was named Booth.

Committing so many crimes against Maryland would end up giving Lincoln a big "headache".
 

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I see C4. That looks like a copy-paste from a neo-confederacy site, and mostly true, but you should remember a few things. The nation was on the brink of war, European agitators and bankers had fueled the rising conflict via trade and arms and troop disbursements. Most importantly a group known as Peaceful Democrats had tried to forge a state's rights pact but were ignored in the South and ineffective in the North. This group became The Copperheads,,, a group that agitated and fomented conflict of which the people you mentioned arrested did belong. Congress only met part of the year at the time, so Lincoln took upon himself to establish marshal law and went after these Copperheads.....habeus corpus was suspended in a time of war just like it is now by the Patriot Act, etc., but re-established by Congress in 1866.
Lincoln looked at the rising conflict in a greater context_ _that of The Ancient Conspiracy and world conflict and a re-conquest of North America, and so became fixated on saving the Union. Believe me, I use to be a Lincoln bashe too,r but upon studying up on the instigators of the war give him a pass on use of emergency powers. It would be very difficult to maintain the Constitution given the impinging war and external pressures happening. But in retrospect, I personally believe myself and the world would be better off if the Union was fractured and the South ran off to do what they wanted, even if they faced an eventual insurrection by blacks who outnumbered the whites. Lincoln didn't see it that way in the greater meaning, and perhaps because of his actions we value the Constitution even more if we were to loose it....which looks like we are doing presently.
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..TM7
 

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TM,
The Confederate states split off. There was no need to wage a war. The confederate states are no threat to the Union. None of it had to happen to preserve the concept of a "Union". Lincoln just simply did not want those states to become their own independent nation. There was nothing, in the constitution that mandated any state stay in the Union. The States independently formed the Union at their own free will. Lincoln simply deployed a war to compel them to stay. There was no legal justification for the war on any constitutional grounds. Still the case today.......

These are the only points of principal that matter.
 

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ironfoot said:
The country split up because Lincoln had established himself as an anti slavery candidate in the Lincoln/Douglas debates and Lincoln'Coopers Union speech. Would he have been greater if he had endorsed slavery in order to appease the South? He did try to appease the South to the extent he admitted he could not legally end slavery, but he opposed the expansion of slavery into the territories. For the South, simply saying slavery was wrong was enough to offend.
The South split from the Union, because Lincoln, and his industrialized north business cronies tried to commandeer the textiles produced in the south. i.e. mainly COTTON. The president before him had put a 10% EXPORT tax on them, and Lincoln BEFORE ELECTED stated if elected HE (LINCOLN) WOULD DOUBLE THE EXPORT TAX, and FORCE the South to sell the cotton to the north at the NORTH's price offer.[/color]
Florida had already said that if Lincoln won they would secede, and South Carolina simply beat them to it.[/color]
Go on line, and search "Lincoln racist speeches" and see the REAL Lincoln. Read where Lincoln intended to move all blacks out of the United States and saying the West is for the White man. Read his quotes saying the Mexican is a mongrel.[/color]
As someone here has already said: Getting shot as president has it's perks. You become a "god" little g. By the way, he most likely was queer, and with a little research you can see whom his favorite bed partner was, and it wasn't Mrs. Lincoln. If memory serves me correctly his name started with Lieutenant.[/color]
 
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