Graybeard Outdoors banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I did some trading around and ended up with a 24" mgm 357 max encore barrel and 200 rounds factory remington 357 max ammo ( 150 for the 158 gr jsp and 50 rounds of 180 gr jsp) and about 150 pieces of R&P 357 max brass.

Not sure how stout the factory remington ammo is loaded. Can't find much info on it other than it hasn't been made in a long time and i was lucky to find some. I will run some over the chronograph when i get time.

I wanted to roll some of my own with the r&p brass.
I thought i had some 180gr xtp left over but i must have used them all up in my 357 mag hunting rounds. I ended up digging up a half a box of 158 gr. xtp flat point. I loaded them over w296 starting at 22 grains and going up a grain at a time to 25 grains. I used federal 205 small rifle primers and loaded to a oal of 1.888" (top of the cannelure) Loaded 5 rounds of each. And finished them with a firm roll crimp. Waiting for it to stop raining so i can test accurate and run them over the chronograph. The 25 grain load was over the hodgdon max of 24 grains but i think this should still be a safe load from my encore. I have seen people go higher with no problems.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,456 Posts
As you likly know about any 357/358 bullet can be used.
But know that the plated variety generally list about 1300 fps as max.

If you wanting big game bullets. That xtp FP is a good one BUT, the Maxi can push it TOO FAST so you wanna throttle it back to about 2000 impact velocity max.

The ol 180 SSP was a good one but even it was a tad fragile on bones at max vel Up Close.

The 180 xtp hp is a good one but same story bot push to the 2200 you likely will be able too.

Speer 180 is tough, push as hard as your comfortable with. Many have used it past 2600 with good success.

The 200 FTX is a option too. Its fragile for a 200, but you cant get it going too fast in the maxi so push as hard as you like.

The 200 RN made for the 35 Rem works well if thats appealing profile. Dont think twice about its RN. You cannot shoot far enough with the maxi to see appreciable benefits from a pointy boolit.

The maxi is a dandy close med game caliber. It responds well To cast too if that's what you do. I have a 230 RD bullet that i have reached 1700 fps in a 24” Bbl so you should be able To as well.

As for powders many work. A few work really well. For Many folks, self included, powders begin and end with AA1680.

I have been killin deer hogs with the Maxi since the 1980’s and with a Savage 24 in 357 Max I bought this summer that string is gonna get longer.

Good luck and have fun.

CW
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Hey cwlongshot. Thanks. Quick question. I had ordered 2 boxes of hornady 180 grain xtp to start with. They were in the mail today and come to find out they have been changed. They no longer have 2 cannelures and the recommended muzzle volocity printed on the box was 700-1500 fps. I called hornady and the rep told me they changed the bullet to a single cannelure back in 2018 but all other specs were the same. I had on old box of the ones with 2 cannelure and i thought i remember the max muzzle volocity on them being something like 1700 or 1800 fps but i can't confirm that.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,456 Posts
Here ya go!

You you are correct. They USED TO BE, classified as faster.

You will need to test to confirm. But Im sure just the canalure makes a difference.

Glad I have old stock!
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thank you so much. The rep at hornady lied strait to me. I asked him about the max muzzle volocity and he said "the only thing that has changed is the cannelure. Everything eles is the exact same"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
417 Posts
Thank you so much. The rep at hornady lied strait to me. I asked him about the max muzzle volocity and he said "the only thing that has changed is the cannelure. Everything eles is the exact same"

Just remember when asking a rep about their products, They only get paid if they sell them.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,456 Posts
They also answer the phones and direct calls... If they where higher up the chain, they would be the ones the calls where directed to.

Nothing against the phone folks. But like I would direct medical questions to the receptionist at the doctors office...

The bullet COULD BE exactly the same sans that cannelure. That cannelure WILL impart more structural integrity.
Look at Hornady literature about bullets form decades ago... They spelled it out. Physics like this do not change.

BEST advice I can give is to set up a d test for yourself. Hopefully you have some old ones to compair.

CW

CW
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,456 Posts
For a hunting bullet I think the Speer 180 (#2435) is a much better choice for just a couple bucks more.
. It IS A GOOD ONE!!

Not that Id call it superior. U less you have to shoot bones up close then yes its a much tougher bullet.
The 180 XTP is proven its worth in the maximum over the years.

These changes might alter that. Time will tell.

CW
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,456 Posts
We need to make them aware that the bullet could be used in the Legend!!

CW
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Sent back the "new style" hornday 180 gr xtp's. Picked up a box of speer 180 gr hot core .358 bullets. Being that they are a more robust bullet i would like to send them down range at as high speed as possible to safly shoot in an encore with a 24" mgm barrel. Of course they will need to be tested for accuracy. A screaming fast bullet does no good if you cant hit the target. I am working with w296 and aa1680 and have federal small rifle primers and cci small rifle magnum primers.
Should i expect. 296 or 1680 to give the highest fps? What kind of max charge i should work up to with these powders? If anyone does not want to share load data on public forum please feel free to pm me.

Thanks:Jeff
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,456 Posts
my vote goes to 1680


see page 27 of the Western Powder Loading Manual for details:
http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/WPHandloading-Guide-7.0-Web-REV.pdf.
Agreed its a good source.

I like 296 allot. But dont use anything but 1680 cause nothing comes close to its preformance for me.

Just last night I built a box using it in the 350 Legend and a 150g bullet.

Id start 24 ish grains and work Up Slow. I would also Seat the bullet as long as you can for powder cap. I have been using cast for some time now and REALLY like the 180 & 190 Ranch Dog bullets at 17-1800 fps. 4227 and RL7 both deliver that with excellent accuracy.

My old maxi load was 26.5g and a 180 ssp. My newer maxi would take More but shot the 26.5 very well vel was 2100 when it was FL bbl. its 17” now so vel is less. But I now have a 24” Maxi in a Savage 24 and it steps right along with that loading. Dozens of deer have fallen to it and not one complaint.

Yes that Speer is a tough bullet but it will work at 2K and up. Its good on bones too! Where the ol ssp would break up on them.

Good luck,

CW
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
994 Posts
I've been told that you cant get enough 1680 in a 357 Max case to cause excessive pressure. I've never seen excessive pressure with 1680 because I've always found an accurate load before reaching that point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Thanks for the good info guys. I have a few more questions if you don't mind.

1:Accurate load data suggests a starting load of 27 gr of 1680 and max of 30 grains for the 180 gr ssp. (Tc only data) Is this too much for the speer hot cor 180 gr bullet?

2:Anyone have suggestions on a c.o.a.l for the 180 gr hot cor? I found one reference to coal for this bullet provided by mgm on there web site. They have the loaded at 2.205" does that sound in the ball park?

3: would federal 205 small rifle primers or cci 450 small magnum rifle primers be the best spark plug for 1680?

Looks like the weekend is going to be cold and wet in my area so i will probably try working up some loads to stay out of the rain. I have some. Loaded up already with w296 and hornady 158 gr fp xtp i would like to get out and chronograph if the weather works with me. Fingers crossed. I also have a new ruger 450 bushmaster i would like to sight in. And i want to put some rounds threw my marlin 45/70 also. My shoulder is gonna be hurtin when this is over. Lol
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,456 Posts
My advice is seat bullet as long as your chanber allows (Keeping a “caliber” in the neck.

As for speed, PUSH IT AS FAST AS ACCURACY ALLOWS! The lil maximum CANNOT outrun this bullet... EVER.

CW
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,624 Posts
Thanks for the good info guys. I have a few more questions if you don't mind.

1:Accurate load data suggests a starting load of 27 gr of 1680 and max of 30 grains for the 180 gr ssp. (Tc only data) Is this too much for the speer hot cor 180 gr bullet?

2:Anyone have suggestions on a c.o.a.l for the 180 gr hot cor? I found one reference to coal for this bullet provided by mgm on there web site. They have the loaded at 2.205" does that sound in the ball park?

3: would federal 205 small rifle primers or cci 450 small magnum rifle primers be the best spark plug for 1680?

Looks like the weekend is going to be cold and wet in my area so i will probably try working up some loads to stay out of the rain. I have some. Loaded up already with w296 and hornady 158 gr fp xtp i would like to get out and chronograph if the weather works with me. Fingers crossed. I also have a new ruger 450 bushmaster i would like to sight in. And i want to put some rounds threw my marlin 45/70 also. My shoulder is gonna be hurtin when this is over. Lol
27 gr of AA1680 sounds like a good starting load. Less than that gave me sooty cases and poor accuracy.

FWIW, I have not been able to find an "accurate" load for the Speer 180 gr Flat Point. I've been using the 180 gr. XTP. Max load is 28.3 according to Accurate load data for the XTP.

Standard rifle primers are ok. Start there. Experiment wirh others if you think you need to but that shouldn't be necessary.

Have fun and let us know how you are doing.

Use the cannelure/ crimp groove for your loads and crimp for best accuracy, imo.

I have found better accuracy with MP300 but there is no load data published for the.357 maximum so I started with Alliant's .357 magnum load data and worked up in .5 gr increments.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Worked up some loads over the weekend and managed to get a little time at the range. Worked from 25 grains up to 28 grains of 1680 under speer 180 gr hcfn with cci 450 primers in remington brass. Did not shoot for groups just wanted to get an average volocity. I can post all my chrono readings if anyone is interested but for now i will say 28 grains got me to 2150fps give or take with a spread of 22 fps. No signs of over presser. Im going to work up to 30 a half grain at a time and shoot for groups. If the groups are acceptable in that range i will stick somewhere in the 28-30 gr range.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
29 grains of 1680 is about all that will fit in the Remington case with the 180 grain hot cor fp if you want to crimp at the cannelure. Im sure you could probably compress more in there but at this point it's starting to smush the lead tip of the bullet. Lucky for me this load makes a nice tight 5 shot group at 100 yards and gives me an average of 2215 fps and all 5 shots were within 10fps of one another. I think this will be my deer load.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top