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Ok do you really nead a magnum?
I've carried a 338WM for moose the last ten years. I found that in some areas, where ranges were long, there were lots of magnums (mostly 7mm, and 338).
Then, I had to move my hunting area, and I found guys hunting with the 35 rem, and the 30-30.
They can't be serrious? Can they?
Then I started talking to these guys, some wanted magnums, but couldn't see the need, when the old brush buster did the job. Some were downright hostile about it!
No nead for anything bigger than my '06 was common.
I soon sold my 338WM, will I miss it?
 

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A 30-06 will do anything you want in the lower 48. Some with Magnumitis will want one to stretch their range, but most don't put in the range time. I've been an avid bowhunter for over 15 years and like to get close, even when carrying my 308 Bellm. Hunting means getting as close as possible and placing the bullet in the animal's vitals. When you can shoot an animal out to 400 yards are more, is it really hunting or more like shooting?
 

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Amen Tony!!!
I also hunt with bow and pistol. And I might as well chime in saying that I shot more mulies while in Wyoming with my 30-30 than any other gun I've ever owned. A friend of mine also gets his elk every year with a 170gr flat nose from his 30-30...at about 25 yards!
 

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Come on now...

:D I own a 35 Rem that's older than I am and mt dad used to hunt deer with when he was stationed in Maine. I also own a nice 338 Win Mag. I'm not altogether certain I "need" the 338 (but when you hunt in my part of Alaska...you're always "hunting" brown bear) but you have to admit that the extra 'push' at the shoting bench is fun :grin:
 

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Hey Matt, I hear ya, now take that 338, crawl down into the prone position, and let it pile drive ya for about two boxes of amo.
That was my introduction to the 338WM I didn't have a bench, and I was sighting in , and having "fun". First time I was ever briused by any gun.
Given the big brownies, I'd still have my 338, or I'd dig out the 45-70.
 

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:) Gee, I hardly figure a 7mm is even a "magnum" anymore. About the same kick as a 30-06 or 270 according to Chuck Hawks recoil tables. And with all the small hand cannons out there in Weatherbys etc... a 7mm seems more like the 243 of the magnum rifles. :)
 

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Heavy loaded, I'll agree, the 45-70 can really smack the shooter. Try it prone with no pad in a T shirt some time.
I've found that the old girl is quite diversified. You can load it to do a lot of different things, and that bone crunching power is not really needed for anything short of big bears anyway.
 

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It's called marketing.

Can you imagine what it would do to the CEO's yacht budget if we all realized that the .30-30 or .30-06 that is in the gun cabinet is just fine?

Someone needs to convince you that whatever Super-Duper XYZ on the gunstore shelf is far superior than whatever sits in your gun rack. So the first thing they do is downplay the guns that are ubiquitous in American's cabinets.

Even for dangerous game, I have my suspicions. Perhaps if you INTEND to take a shot at Ol' Ephraim from 100 yards - then you want some assurance that you won't just tick him off.

But for simple "berry picking" in grizzly country, I question the choice of a magnum. In a berry picking situation, my guess is at 100 yards or more, you and the grizz will avoid any confrontation. The situation you need to defend yourself in is when you are suprised by a charging bruin.

In this situation, what might matter more than magnum power is the lightning quick ability to get off a shot.

Will someone do me a favor? Will someone figure out the time it takes for a charging grizzly to close a 30 yard gap?

Then see if you can unshoulder the .338 WM and hit a coffee can in that amount of time? Then try it with a .30-30 or .35?

Now, while you're at the range, try hitting the coffee can from off the hip. Time yourself to see if off the hip shooting is faster. Keep practicing with both the magnum and the old guns until you get proficient.

Then post the results here.
 

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And then there's the point Boddington makes in whatever issue of gun-whatever last month, about the 416 Remington mag: "magnum of what?"
The 416 Rigby, Hoffman, Dakota, Rimmed (A-Square), these all do a 400gr @ 2400 or better already, and then Remington puts out a "Magnum" that does the same thing!?
It really is just marketing, and it's a word so over-used it means nothing anymore, except, "Hey! Look at me!!"
The question, of course, is simply do you need x amount of velocity in x bullet weight.
Answer - OF COURSE YOU DO! (If you do, that is.)
Something my father taught me early as I'd listen, you don't need to rationalize a gun purchase or cartridge selection, unless it makes you feel better.
You got ol' what's-z-name, Bell? shooting elephant with a 270, c'mon.
:)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Black Jaque Janaviac
Tell you right now, if I practiced for a life time, I could never shoot any bolt gun as handily, as fast, or as accurately, in a close range quick shot scenario, as a '94 Winchester. Maybe that's just me, but I doub't it.
 

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it is always about marketing. i took a buddy of mine to a gun shop recently. he just recieved his pal and didn't really know much about guns. when he asked the clerk about a good starting gun for deer he handed him model 700 in .300 WSM. those puppys have a hefty price tag, especially if you only work part time!! my buddy wasn't to sure and the guy was pushing hard to make the sale.when he asked my pinion i gave him the truth. that no4 lithgow .303 on the rack for $80 will kill'em just as dead as $2,000 custom gun. or if you don't want milsurp by a model 94.he finally took a .30-.30 trappers model for $110. the looks i got from the clerk as he wrung it up could have melted lead!! guess i cheated him out of his commission. the truth hurts. :grin:
 

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Something similar happened to me a few years ago at the range.

There was this guy trying to sight in a 30-30 with a red dot sight, and was having an awful time. Because I was shooting red dots too, we got to talking. It seemed we both hunted the thick stuff - although his gang did more drives than mine. I suggested the usual stuff (loose bases etc.), but he was convinced everything was OK.

I noticed he was talking to one of the range regulars as well as me. A little later, he came back to me and asked my opinion of the 30-30. Since I'm no fan of the cartridge, I gave my opinion, and suggested a "middle" cartridge would be better, but that he not get away from quick actioned rifles. He went back to the other guy, and then they both left to go to the pro shop.

As I was packing up to leave, they came back, and now he had his new "darling. It was a bolt actioned abomination in 7mm magnum with a scope that was something like 16 or 20 power. I choked back my real feeling, told him it looked nice, and left.

They sure took him to the cleaners - that combo probably cost $1,500. I wonder how he was able to deal (that fall) with a running deer at 30 yds with that POS.
 

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Quick shooting

Mr. Cannuck, growing up in the hemlock forests of North central PA, I used to feel the same way as you do about bolt guns. EVERYONE uses either a Marlin, or Winchester lever, or a 760/7600 remington pump. Then I found the Ruger m77 RSI in 308 with a 18 1/2" bbl. It is the sweetest pointing/shooting rifle I have ever uesed. I can site over teh 1-4x Leupold or focus on a 7yd deer if need be. I've shot a few after jumping them out. It's obviously not a fast 2nd shot, but it swings great on a fast moving deer, and swings real easy in the hemlocks. I rank it as high as any of the above in first shot speed on target and accuracy. It does kick. I find the Remingtons on the heavy side for all-day deer drives, and the RSI gives me a lot more 'field' range than the levers (disocunting the BLRs). I still have the lever guns, my brother still has his 760 '06, and some things never change! Escept me. I still have the RSI but it relegated to 'safe-keeping', as I rarely carry a rifle anymore. Only occasionally my 444 or 45-70. One can't have too many choices. No big belted mags here. The most power I have is my 35 Whelen, but you already it's merits! Great job!
 

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i've always liked the 94. even though i am a big fan of the enfield, it doesn't offer a quick follow-up shot if your a lefty. since it cocks on closing the extra force you have to use to close the bolt can cause the stock to slip from the shoulder and get ya in the teeth if you don't have an iron grip on the rifle. the other nice thing about the 94 over a marlin lever gunis that it ejects straight up so those hot shells aren't whipping by face.
 

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All I own is magnums and I find anything smaller is boring. Maybe one day when I get older and have the mentality I don't need magnums anymore, but I highly doubt that'll ever happen.
 

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John Y Cannuck,

For 80% of the hunting done in the states NO you don't need a magnum. You also don't need air conditioning in your car or a radio or even a heater. Sure a person can get by with a .30-06, .308 or whatever he likes but many of us like having the option of taking shots at somewhat longer ranges or having the additional power a magnum gives. Example is say you kill that trophy elk and while you are dressing it an cagey ole grizzly come along to challenge you for ownership. Now he's 50 yards away and getting closer fast, you still want that 06 or would you rather have that magnum? Me I love my magnums and I use them. Lawdog
 

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"Will someone do me a favor? Will someone figure out the time it takes for a charging grizzly to close a 30 yard gap?"

B.J.J.,
The answer to your question is: 3.0 seconds. No thanks necessary; glad I could help.(TIC)

best,
bhtr
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yup I can see where you'd like one, the griz though, and the polar bear are the only real reason, unless you are realy into the long range stuff.
I'd guess that it's closer to 90% of all hunting does not require a magnum, and even stretch that to world wide, from the comfort of my chair.
How? Except for the long range stuff, there are non magnums that can do the job. You'd rather have a magnum to face the charging bear? the 505Gibbs, is not a magnum, niether is the lowly 10guage.
 

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In bear country, 400 grains at anything over 2000 fps answers most questions decisively. No firearm will ever replace a good "thinking cap" for the best defense. Anyone who does not consider his surroundings and or his MO. whilst in the woods will have a run-in at sometime that places an awful amount of reliance on lady luck to save the day. I prefere a combo package of firearm and thinking cap myself.
best,
bhtr
 
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