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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,I know this may be off target but posting here I can direct my questions to those that live there.My wife,baby daughter and I live in northern NJ and we want to move.Upsate NY is one of the places we are considering.Whats it like?Where would you suggest?I have a small ladscape buisness,plow snow and have worked in/managed gun stores for about 20 years,my wife is an EMT,911 operator and drives a school bus.I've heard taxes are high,even if thats true they can't be as high as NJ.We're also thinking about NH,VT and ME.Logisticly it would be hard to leave the northeast,plus we like snow.Thanks for any help,BASIC.
 

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I used to live in NY, and if I was to go back, I'd pick a spot along Lake Ontario, between Rochester and Syracuse, just north of the Finger Lakes. Fishing, hunting and you should find plenty of snow plowing.
 

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BASIC: I can understand how you feel. I have lived in NYS for 59 years, have travelled the state extensively and hunted through a large part of it. It is a great state and absolutely beautiful during most of the year. It is absolutely bitterly unforgiving during other parts of the year, too.

Upstate New York is, economically, just getting by. 20 years of democratic party taxes, driving small businesses out of the state, maximizing welfare and, paying for the fiscal losses of New York City have left upstate struggling to regain some economic composure.

I would love to have another hunter and shooter here with us and recommend you use the net to view and contact some of those communities you may be thinking about heading for to see what their economic outlook is like.

You will truly find a lot of snow in the north country and landscaping firms and business seem to be on the increase. Gun shops - I think we need more of them but NYS has some pretty draconian rules, as you may know. Not as bad as NJ, though. JMHO. Mikey.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Guy,thanks for the replys.The reasons I'm thinking of NY are,while taxes might be higher than other states,from wht I understand you can get property/house for less than nearby states,there alot of small to mid size towns so the posibilities of jobs might be there,a good size deer heard.ME,NH and VT all seem to have high taxes too(I know NH doesn't have income tax but they make it up with property tax),VT and NH seem to be the "IN" place to move to from MA,NYC and yes NJ.Property prices are high,unless you get to the extreme northern parts of the states,jobs are not easy to come by unless its in the tourist industry,VT does not have a healthy deer heard,I don't know much about NH and ME has a one deer limit,I think.The problem I see with PA is the Poconos are now worse than NJ,northwestern PA is rural,real rural except for Erie,one deer a year I think..The way things are going we're going to look at SW VA and eastern TN,VA mountains get a fair amount of snow,people are nice,there are jobs around the bigger cities,healthy deer population.We eat alot of venison so its important to be able to harvest what we need,thats one thing NJ has.Any other suggestions,BASIC.
 

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Saratoga/ Glens Falls area. Close to everything you mentioned. In addition to hunting/fishing/outdoors activities, it also has excellent cultural & entertainment venues.
 

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moving to NY

The Finger Lakes region is a -worsening-economic disaster.
That's why I'm looking nationwide,to get OUT of NY ASAP.
Good luck.
 

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reBAL...You are right...The Saratoga area is beautiful...Especially that race track. It's a good thing that I live in the Buffalo area and not the Saratoga area...I might be at the track a little too much...Fun stuff. We have relatives that live in Middlegrove so going into Saratoga only takes about 15 minutes...Good stuff. We make a trip East once or twice a year...We make a point to go during the brief horse racing season.
 

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Our taxes are high and will be higher and the gun laws stink but New York is one of the nicest states we have.There's always something to do in this state all year round.Even so,I may be leaving N.Y. soon to find a better job.
 

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The taxes will rise anywhere you go...They just seem to go up exponentially here in NY...The population is shrinking in NY but I do not see the government shrinking...Just fewer tax payers to cover all those civil servant's salaries...We need a serious re-think in this state.

Ken...Seems you will be getting out of Erie County just in time...At least before the entire thing caves in under Giambra. The man looks like Dracula and he is sucking the life blood out of Erie County.
 

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The only thing keeping me here is my job. If anything ever happens to it were probably going move to the Flagstaff, Arizona area! My wife also has family in the San Antonio, Texas area, but it way to hot there for me!

New York State has a lot going for it. It also has a lot going against it! If you like snow Central New York has all the snow you'll ever want. The Tug Hill Plateau (45 minutes north of Syracuse) is the snowiest place in the country east of the Rockies! Syracuse in the snowiest city in the country with a population over 100,000 people! We average 120 inches a year! Taxes and the cost of energy are outrageous!

As said earlier, the population is getting smaller but the government and spending isn't! Our great "Republican" Governor George E. Pataki is more liberal then half the democrats we have. HE came up with the idea of "ballistic finger printing". Which means every pistol sold in NY has to have a spent case and bullet sent to the State Police so they can keep it on record. They have never used it to solve any shootings but we still have to do it. HE also came up with and passed a law that mirrors the federal assault weapons ban!

Good paying jobs are leaving faster then the people are! If you're in the medical field you can get a good job, but thats about it!

I love NY. I would love nothing more then to have good people move here! I have never lived anywhere else, but if anything ever happens at the plant.........were gone and we ain't coming back!
 

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Most of the residents have it right on ....

If it were not for the big city thinkers, mostly from downstate ( NYC and environs) we would have one of the greatest states in the union..

So much natural resources and beautiful hunting, camping etc...
The natural environment is good for business, abundant water from the Great Lakes (two border NY), reasonably cheap electric, skilled labor force (without jobs) etc.

NY would boom, were we to become a "right to work" state and entice manufacturers that are "going South"...Mercedes, Hyundai, Nissan etc. to settle here....
But don't hold your breath ; the unions have amost all of the politicians in their pockets...

Unfortunately we cannot electy enough conservative politicians statewide to effect honest changes....again, that hole downstate is a bastion of liberalism...and together with a portion of the big city voters in the rest of the state....the rest of us are "iced out".

Real estate in western NY is to be had for a pittance....there are some very nice victorians that can be had for 30-50 thousand dollars..The same ones that sell for 1/2 million in San francisco or Conn.

The govt is overloaded with patronage jobs...and state govt has a thing called "unfunded mandates", whereby they tell the county govtys that they "must provide" certain benefits and programs, but don't provide any of the money to implement them.

Erie county(where Buffalo is located) is just about to go belly up...the state govt has an "unfunded mandate" that all indigent people must be provided medical services...to include even plastic surgery for the ugly ones.
Just about all the property taxes are being used for just this one program...

We have a "Rino" governor who claims he came from the farm...must have been the "funnyfarm" ...because he performs like a big city liberal.

Hunting is great and more hunting lands are opening up all the time...because so many folks are leaving...

The population shrinks, but the government grows..

I am retired and my son & family live nearby...my wife is ill, and when we are no longer here, my son will probably leave NY..
Unfortunately, that's the picture...the productive folks are leaving and the parasites are staying...
Not because of any shortcomings of the natural NY...but because of greedy politicians...


Sorry; but till we can change govt (snicker) there is no relief in sight.
 

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Great insight Ironglow...You hit the nail on the head and I agree with your wholeheartedly.
 

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ironglow is right, unfortunately. The economy is not as it should be and the rural areas and towns are paying for the folly of the larger city mayors and politicians but, it won't be that way forever or for a lot longer, either. At some point, and at least Pataki realizes this, if we don't get business back into the rural areas of the state, where operational overhead costs are less, the cities that can't support themselves now will go into fiscal failure. This always means a change in politics and the elected phonies but doesn't necessarily mean an immediate recovery.

Look at it this way - 20 years of dumbocreptic rule under carey and cuomo left this state dang near bankrupt with far to many useless social programs providing handouts and welfare - cuomo was the expert at this as it garnished him most of the indigent population votes but after a while it was too much for most of us taxpayors and we voted him out. Whenever a politician says 'I can fix it', it is time for him to go. What I'm saying here is that it takes a tremendous effort to right an economy after 20 years of abusive taxation and spending. This doesn't happen overnight, especially when the losers are still trying their best to cause this governor to fail. Does anyone really think that even a right thinking Repubican Governor can turn 20 years of tax and spend abuse around in 12 years - maybe, if there was no opposition, but you still have that cuomo wannabe, silver, in NYC droppin' anchor everytime a cost cutting idea pops up.

I don't want hunters and shooters and fishermen and archers and all those who enjoy New York's great outdoors to leave the state, I want more of us here with louder voices to make the tax and spend liberals take note that the world in NYS isn't gonna go the way they want it to go no matter how much the whine, complain, whiz and moan.

It's time to put those people back at the bottom of the food chain where they belong. They want handouts - they get them - last year, New York hunters contributed enough wild game meat to the state to feed over 600 thousand meals - but most of it went to those who vote the other way because they never knew which hand was feeding them. We need to have more voices, not fewer, and they need to be louder. JMHO. Mikey.
 

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ironglow and Mikey,

I can't add much to your great posts. Except that maybe we need to protect agricultural lands in some way. In Otsego county there were many small farms 30-40 yrs. ago. Many less farms today(milk prices,taxes, etc.). Land is being sold off and sub-divided, urbanites moving in, and tourism not helping at all(low paying seasonal jobs for bosses who bug out during winter). Actually many of us see tourism as detremental to a point. As long as the pols concentrate on seasonal tourists for revenue they will ignore the real problem-lack of decent paying year long jobs.

Qtip
Soli Deo Gloria!
To God Alone Be The Glory!
 

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The best idea our sorry excuse for "leaders" can think of is more casinos.
Wow ! What a great future...at least the Indians get rich....for a while..
However, more casinos are opening up every day...from coast-to-coast.

When it comes to the point where nearly evry county in the nation has it's own casino...where do they go for gamblers..
I suppose they figure they can just milk the citizens of trheir own county of their paychecks..
A thought...that is not bringing NEW money into the county, just churning what is there...

Next prominence in their way of thinking is museums, copying the football hall of fame and the rock & roll hall of fame etc.

This when in Buffalo for instance, the various powers to be couldn't get together long enough to build a bridge before the federal cash was withdrawn...

When considering economic development, I don't believe any of them can spell either p-r-o-d-u-c-t-i-o-n ..or...m-a-n-u-f-a-c-t-u-r-i-n-g...those words don't seem to be in THEIR lexicons...
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks for the replys guys.ironglow,sir,I'm sorry your wife is ill,I hope and pray for you all.NY may not be the best place to move but it may be the best place in the northeast.True ME,NH and VT all have better gun laws but their taxes are as high or higher than NY.The property prices are also high,at least in NY there affordable,the only exception maybe northern ME.Also jobs while none are great(unless its health care)from what I've been told NY is no worsethan the others.NY has better deer limits than ME(I think one),a healtheir deer population than VT and I'm not sure about NH.NY isn't New England,so thats OK with me.Some of the southern states are looking real good,WV,VA and TN.Thers a lot about the northeast that I like.Remember,I live in NJ,most any place looks better when you compare it to us.
 

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Basic;
I hope I haven't painted too black a picture. There are jobs available, just not so many or so high pay as elsewhere.
Some oportunities are good, depending upon your particular skill and level of expertise in it.
NY has some programs that are good for the needy, EPIC (perscription program) and other helps.
Where I live we have abundant wild game...we are swimming in deer, geese, turkey, coon and many other species.
Guys like me (over 65) get the entire sportsman license pkg (small game, big game, fishing) for $5..special permits , turkey, mikgratory and blackpowder/archery are extra.

One advantage we in this area have over much of the south and west is hunting/fishing permission.
My brother in Texas, in order to coon hunt, has to belong to a club that LEASES acreage tracts...just to be able to hunt. Deer hunting further west, most hunters seem to require hunters to "rent by the day" a stand or place to hunt.
I believe this to be an outgrowth of the big land owner mentality. Where just a few own most of the land (ranchers, timber co. or oil leases) they can cooperate in charging for access.
Where I live and I presume for much of the northeast, land holdings are smaller, say 150-600 acres for most farms....no monopoly..so either they let you hunt on their land or they don't. If anyone around here ever mentions a fee for such, he would be laughed at.
The only leases I have heard of is where a club wants EXCLUSIVE use of a large acreage tract...they should pay for that..

I am "The Village Blacksmith" in my very small hamlet and am known for many miles around by just about everyone. Along with my church and political connections, there are very few places in this half of the county where I CANNOT hunt.
Got to stay off the indian Reservations though...but they are in the other half...LOL

I have lived in areas where fees are the custom and if you are an avid hunter/sportsman, it is something to consider...

I like the idea of living in a small town where everyone knows you...and much of your business. If you are an upstanding, clean living, straight-talking person..they know that also...and many doors are open to you...
I'd rather be a "big fish in a small pond", than " a small fish in a big pond"...LOL
 
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