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I have heard that Winchester will be coming out with two new cartridges, a .223 WSSM and .243 WSSM. Actually, they are apparently called WSSM rather than WSM because the new WSSMs are "Winchester Super Short Magnum" (they are even shorter than the WSMs). These new cartridges are supposed to be out in 2003.

Has anybody heard about this?
 

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Yes I saw a product introduction notice in a magazine on them. Still don't fully understand just what niche they are supposed to fit into. I think the .22 is about an equal to the .22-250 or .220 Swift which are both already short action rounds so I fail to see what it is to accomplish. Dunno if the .24 is to duplicate the .243/6MM Rem. or the .240 Whby. But again I fail to see what it is all about other than making more money for Winchester and Browning.

Just can't generate any enthusiasium for some new round that is likely to be just another that Winchester dumps in a short while like so many others. Then you are stuck with a gun for which ammo and cases aren't available. Maybe I'm just not part of the "in crowd" but for the life of me I don't see the need to buy something new that does nothing others already out there for years does just as well.

GB
 

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GB has a good point. However, if I was in the market for a 243 I might just wait and take a look at one.
 

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if everyone thought like GB then there would be no AI's, no wildcats at all, no magnum rounds, a 375 h&h would be the only bear medicine out there, and we would be shooting prairie dogs with 25-20's . with all these new calibers and magnums it is only a matter of time until they figure out how to make improvements on bullets, powders and barrel metalurgy. not talking about a-frames or solids etc. talking about projectiles that come out the barrel at 5000 fps plus without blowing up and powder that doesnt burn rifling out after 400 rounds. its called technology advancements. besides, variety is the spice of life. keep making them and lets see what neat things we can convince the wife we "need".
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I guess that there is nothing necessarily wrong with technology (although sometimes it seems to add stress to our lives just as much as it seems to take away from it).

Anyway, without getting too philosophical, I was just wondering how popular, not necessarily practical, the .243 WSSM would be.

Yes, there is nothing wrong with the regular .243, and, as GB says (and to a great degree I agree with him) it is not speed that kills, but rather tissue damage. On the other hand, I see nothing wrong with a flatter shooting, and yes harder hitting, bullet. I would think, however, that if the new WSSM is significantly faster than the regular .243, then premium bullets may be required when shots are fired at closer distances.

Zachary
 

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I see nothing in the article posted I believe it was by Zachary to indicate the projected performance of the .243 version. Just that the .223 version is targeted for about 200 fps more than the .22-250 or basically same as the Swift.

Now I fail to see how that is a technological advance. We've had the Swift for over 50 years moving bullets that fast. Same for the .240 Weatherby. The new short fat case isn't likely to exceed that. I'm all for technology improvements. BUT I don't see making a whole passle of new rounds that do nothing current rounds don't all ready do as a technology improvement. IT is just a ploy to see more guns to help the manufacturer and then a few years down the road they will drop them like a hot potato and the new owners will be stuck with useless guns for which ammo is not available. Winchester is famous for just this.

Now I could care less who falls for it and buys them. Matters not one whit to me. But to fall for the magazine writer BS that only the newest and greatest introduction is worthy of consideration is a gross misscarriage of justice as they really seldom offer anything current rounds don't already provide. Comparing these to the introduction of smokeless in the BP days or of more modern rounds to the .25-20 is a weak argument at best and stupid at worst. Just an apples to oranges comparison. These are mostly just for sales increases for the gun makers not about making any real technoloical improvements.

GB
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I'm not too interested in a .223 WSSM or a .243 WSSM, but I think that a 6.5mm WSSM or WSM would be much more practical.

Unlike the traditional .308, .284, and .277 calibers, there is very little competition about the 6.5mm (.264). Is it that much different than the .277? I guess not. But apparently a great many competitive bench rest shooters find the 6.5mm bullet (especially in PPC type brass - like the WSM and WSSM) to be very accurate (Yes, I know that accuracy depends on a lot of things, but I'm speaking in gereral terms).

I own a .260 Remington and LOVE IT, but I would like a flatter shooting .264 bullet.

The 140 grain 6.5mm bullets have a very high sectional density - which, of course, is important for penetration purposes. Would any of you be interested in a 6.5mm WSM or WSSM type cartridge?

Zachary
 

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GB, they said the same thing about the ppc when the 222 owned all the accuracy records. why would anyone want a 6mm that shots 200 fps slower than a 243? accuracy, sport, fun, reloading, bets at the range, economy stimulation, boost sales for manufacturers, and 100 other good reasons. keep the new stuff coming, cant wait to shoot them. as for you old "i can do everything with a 06 that you can do with your Xround" guys, keep thinking and acting that way, techonolgy will eventually leave you in the dust like the horse drawn carriage.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Jeff,

Not that GB can't fend for himself, and not that we all have freedom of speech (because we do and that's what makes America great) but there is sometimes a fine line between freedom of speech and personal attacks. I think that your reference to "old" guys - altough properly made in gest, was still somewhat inappropriate. Show a little more respect to GB and all "older" people.

I've learned more from my grandfather and father than I have from my nephews. People aren't old. They are wise. You may not agree with them, but you should always listen to them and, above all, respect them.

Remember, one day you too will not be as young as you are today.

Zachary
 

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well gee zach, how old am i? i am willing to bet a couple years on either side of gb. in my post, "old" was attributed to a way of thinking not a persons age. think old, you are old. if you are afraid of technology, well the world will leave you behind like so many companies have been left behind. kind of funny that gb is on the leading edge of tech with computers but when it comes to fire arms still thinks the 06 rules the roost. the 06, while a great cartridge in its time, is like a 30-30 compared to todays newer cartridges. you wont find any of the leading shooters using them. technology creeps forward. and the new calibers are surely doing that. some cartridges will succeed and some will fail but they are surely an advancement in technology that hasnt been made in the shooting industry in over 50 years. i am glad to see it.

jeff

ps next time i need a lecture about respect i will email you. dont bother posting one on the board.
 

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6.5

zachary,i have used the 264 win mag with 26 in barrel for some time now.
i have the win model 70 with the claw extractor.this caliber has gotten a lot of bad press as an over bore and a barrel burner.most of which is unfounded.the experts will tell you that its demise was due to the 7mm rem mag popularty.it is easer on barrels then all of the new short magnums and rifles like the lazzeronis and the ultra mags,and most of these are more overbored then the 6.5win mag.and throat erosion is no longer an issue with the new stainless actions! this is the flatest shooting 6.5 on the market,with exception to the lazzeroni 6.5 which most folks can`t afford,and the ammo is very costly.i use conley loads with 140grs
at 3,200fps .this setup will safely take elk out to 500+ yds! and kick is less then my /06!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
jdt,

What 140 grain bullet do you use? And on what do you base your premise that it will safetly take elk out to 500+ yards?

Zachary
 

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JDT,

I have the same gun as you. I agree lots of undeserved bad press for the 264 wm. In my opinion it's a fine round. I also shoot Kole Connely's loads in it, but I opted for the 120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip this year (whitetail only). So far no complaints. Honestly though, I don't think I would feel comf'y trying an elk at 500 yds. with the 264.

By the way, I also have a Lazzeroni 7.82 Patriot (the Lazzeroni .308 short mag). As far as cost for that one, I got the Savage version at $500. Now that's less than most gun shop Rem, Wins or Brownings. Yep, the bullets do cost a mite, but them suckers do shoot good. Less than 3" MOA at 300 yds. By the way, I'm trying to talk Kole C into loading up the Lazzeroni's. He says he might look into it next year.

Zachary,

Can't imagine a much flatter shooter than the 264 win mag being needed, but if someone were to come up with one of them new fangled shorts it would probably be a winner. Can't imagine getting much more than what my 264 does though.

In answer to your question to another poster on the 120gr under another topic, I haven't had the problem of bullet break up (at least yet). I did quite a bit of research and talked to some long time users of this load before changing. Pretty much everything that was said by users seemed OK, and so far it has lived up as advertised.

Not saying that it couldn't happen, because I've had that happen on an 06 before, so I know it can, but I don't think it is a problem that will make this load unaccpeptable. I would be concerned with a partition style bullet with this caliber, as it would most likely pass through with little expansion (little in/little out/little damage/little blood).

After the 2nd season, I'll be able to give you a better report on bullet performance, I hope.
 

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New Calibers

:D GB,I agree with what you are saying about what we already have.Now in my humble opinion if the firearms industry wanted to do something to boost sales they could do this.Build a rifle of whatever cal.that would shoot very accurate and not have to have so many things done to it after the purchase to make it do so.Granted it would cost a little more but the purchaser would get lots more.By the time the consumer gets through bedding the action,a trigger job,setting the barrel back,lapping the lugs,floating the barrel and trueing the action he has a good price in his original purchase.More cals. will create more interest and more sales.What I would call technology is refineing what we already have.Just my thoughts,I am CAL........
 

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Contrary to some views, newer is not always better . . . often it is just different. I for one am an 06 fan. Few calibers do it any better than the 06 but they are a little different. People who think that some of us are "old in our thinking" may like trying to re-invent the wheel when the original one was not broke to begin with. I dont care what anyone shoots or why. Newer is cool because its new. New loads, new adventures etc... but I really doubt its better. I have gone thru 5 different guns in the last 2 years, not a lot I suppose but still quite a few. Different calibers, makes and models. All were great in their own way and some had different applications for how and what I would hunt . . . but none were "better" than any other. So before people spout off about what the right answers are, maybe they should figure out what the questions are 1st.
 

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the 243wssm is around 200fps faster then the reg 243. they say that there is less kick with the shorter fatter round. i think new calibers sell.
its all about selling more guns.every year a new caliber appears on the scene and people go crazy to get one! deer were dropping by thousands
from 30/30s,257 roberts 7mm mausers 30/06s 6.5x55s.in the old days.
its like a new car,no matter how good the old one was we had to have a new one! first kid on the block,ask questions later!
 
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