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Notice that .... when you are not posting 'controversial stuff' there are fewer arguments and name calling?

Have your 'controversial' post helped anyone to find salvation?

Have they helped anyone to grow spiritually?

Do you post here so that you might learn more about God or the Bible?

Do you post here to help others in these areas?

Or do you post here to satisfy your own ego?

This topic would seem to indicate the later. :?
 

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Brett,
You seem a bit tense and angry. How long has it been since you had a vacation?
Jeager yes I have. Its funny that you mention it, I was just reading the bible study forum and was chuckling at all the hits that the "real bible study subjects" get.

Elwood P. Dowd
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Brett said:
Notice that .... when you are not posting 'controversial stuff' there are fewer arguments and name calling?

Have your 'controversial' post helped anyone to find salvation?

Have they helped anyone to grow spiritually?

Do you post here so that you might learn more about God or the Bible?

Do you post here to help others in these areas?

Or do you post here to satisfy your own ego?

This topic would seem to indicate the later. :?
Brett: Your supposed to be setting an example here. We have been peaceful and coexisting for weeks now you there you go attacking me PERSONALLY.
THAT sir, is uncalled for, unChristian and unacceptable conduct.
Now go take a deep breath, a couple days off, pray for forgiveness and proabably apologize before Greybeard sees you post and really gets ticked off! :shock:
 

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Get over yourself Jeager. These are all valid questions that I once asked of you in a PM. My PM went unanswered so I thought I would ask again, in the open. Do you have something to hide? An alterer motive perhaps? Maybe you are just another troll looking to stir up trouble? GB can do as he likes, it's his forum and his web site.
 

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Ah how nice it is to see the Christian love and charity flow so freely among our fellow man and fellow Christian. :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Brett said:
Get over yourself Jeager. These are all valid questions that I once asked of you in a PM. My PM went unanswered so I thought I would ask again, in the open. Do you have something to hide? An alterer motive perhaps? Maybe you are just another troll looking to stir up trouble? GB can do as he likes, it's his forum and his web site.
What PM????
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Brett said:
Notice that .... when you are not posting 'controversial stuff' there are fewer arguments and name calling?

No I have NOT noticed less name calling or personal attacks.

Have your 'controversial' post helped anyone to find salvation?

How knows? Certainly not you or I.

Have they helped anyone to grow spiritually?

I would certainly think so. My posts, studies and what I learn form others here have helped me grow spiritually.

Do you post here so that you might learn more about God or the Bible?

Absolutely!

Do you post here to help others in these areas?

Sure do. Controversey spawns thought. For some that is.

Or do you post here to satisfy your own ego?

Brett. EVERYONE has an ego. To NOT have an ego is to deny part of our human condition. An ego is God given and therefor good.
Egocentricities can be another issue altogther.



This topic would seem to indicate the later. :?
You are entitled to your opinions.
 

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controversy

Seems to me that the only way a question could be considered controversial is if one wants to answer it, or has a definite opinion on the subject. Why would anyone question one's motive for asking a question? It ALWAYS takes two ( or more ) to have an argument, discussion, debate, whatever. What does ego have to do with anything? If your ego affects me I must be afraid of or feel threatened by it. Where's the use in that? I choose the topics here that I wish to CONTRIBUTE to and I choose the topics that I wish to remain silent about. I learned over a long period of growth and soul searching that IT IS NOT IMPORTANT THAT ANYONE ELSE hears MY opinion, and that I don't have to have the last word. I used to be of the mind set that "I've listened to you now you're going to listen to me". Guess what? All that is is anger and insecurities. I don't have to respond to you and you certainly don't have to listen to me. Think about it. And ponder this: some people have a better command of language and can communicate their thoughts easily, while others don't have the same level of communication skills. So the words chosen don't necessarily reflect the intent of a question or statement. That is why forums such as this can only work if the is a certain amount of patience and understanding among us towards each other. Thrust and parry. Point and counter-point. Questions and answers. Agree to disagree. And move on. Ol Injun trick: "walk a mile in another man's mocassins"... How about an old classic song- "before you accuse me, take a look at yourself"... And one more-( this is an album title from long ago ) "nothing really matters, and what if it did?" Let's not take ourselves too seriously. I don't know about ya'll, but when I'm stressed I go to the shooting range and squeeze off a few hundred rounds. (and I work in a prison so I'm pretty stressed out on a regular basis) I think group hugs are for liberals, but at least we can lighten up on each other, can't we? Well, like I said in my new member introduction, I know a little bit about alot of things and I'm an expert on nothing, except my failings as a man and as a Christian. O.K. I said that I can be long-winded, too, so I'll dummy up now. Peace and God bless, Wolfsong.
 

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jeager106 said:
Brett. EVERYONE has an ego. To NOT have an ego is to deny part of our human condition. An ego is God given and therefor good.
Egocentricities can be another issue altogther.[/i]
Ego is all about self, self centeredness, self gratification, placing ones self first, I, me, mine.

Christ taught on many occasions that we are to deny ourselves and seek God first, then to be concerned for our fellow man and then place ourselves last. Ego is what caused Adam and Eve to sin. They wanted to be like God. Perhaps if you had spent a little more time studying the Bible instead of Bible history you would have known these things.

Satan used man's ego as well as introducing doubt in the validity of God's word to entrap him. He challenged Eve "... surely you won't die as God has told you". Of course God was speaking of a spiritual death not a physical death as Satan was.

Reread your own post... are you doing more to confirm God's Word or more to invalidate it?

And NO I am not calling you Satan or even comparing you to him. I'm asking you once again to examine your motives.
 

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I have noticed that people defend that which is near and dear to them. They do that to promote, to build up, to preserve those things that they love, have faith in, have hope in.

On the other hand, the things that people doubt or don't believe in they try to find fault, untruths, "loopholes", things to discredit.

That is why I have a difficult time with somone who would claim to have faith in God and the truth of His Word, yet they spend more time tearing it down (being negative or contraversial towards it), searching for fault and untruths rather than proclaiming it as the Living, True, Word of God.

But thats just my opinion.
 

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My opinion, & I'm not arguing or saying I'm right or wrong or anyone else is right or wrong, but my opinion is the truth should make sense. Maybe one day I'll find me a Church that teaches in a way I find truthfull but even if I do, in the back of my mind will be the knowledge that theres alot of other Churches preaching what they think is the truth & even tho they get their truth from the same book I do their truth will be different. If theres a bunch of different truths then that must mean that people are interpreting what they read in different ways. So which is the truth? Which should I believe? Why is it wrong to seek my own truth instead of accepting someone elses?

Alot of guys here see Jaeger as contriversal it seems & maybe even a trouble maker. I dissagree & I think he's seeking answers, enlightenment if you will.

People seem stuck on the teachings of Jesus that are convinient to them & they ignore other teachings. I'm as guilty as anyone else in that but I'll never tell someone they have it all wrong. Jesus preached that divorce for anything short of adultery was a sin & if a person got divorced & married another THEY were guilty of adultery. People didn't like that & started a whole new brand of Christianity to get around it. Jesus & his Apostles taught that a true follower of our Lord ought to sell all their stuff & give the money at the feet of the Apostles so all would have what they need & none should go without. I know noone who does that & from my own experiences with my Church its easy to see why. I might add that that teaching is real close to what we know as Socialism or even Communism. How many Christians support either? My point is no one is guiltless or perfect in their following in the steps of Jesus, we all accept what we believe is the truth & ignore or rationalize what we cant believe.

I see no way to be honest in my faith if I dont try & understand Gods word & that means I feel a need to make sense of it. It wasn't wrong for those who decided what would be included in the Bible & how it should be worded & its not wrong for Jaeger or myself IMHO. :D
 

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Leverdude said:
My opinion, & I'm not arguing or saying I'm right or wrong or anyone else is right or wrong, but my opinion is the truth should make sense.
It would be nice wouldn't it. Unfortunately it is not always the case. We all know of children stricken with cancer as well as old folks in there 70's and 80's who smoked, drank and eat 'all the wrong stuff' their entire lives who are healthy as horses. Doesn't make any sense, but it's the truth.

Leverdude said:
Maybe one day I'll find me a Church that teaches in a way I find truthfull but even if I do, in the back of my mind will be the knowledge that theres alot of other Churches preaching what they think is the truth & even tho they get their truth from the same book I do their truth will be different. If theres a bunch of different truths then that must mean that people are interpreting what they read in different ways. So which is the truth? Which should I believe? Why is it wrong to seek my own truth instead of accepting someone elses?
One of the reasons there are so many Christian denominations (or religions for that mater) is that most everyone is seeking "their own truth" when we should be seeking God's truth. How do you know when you are in a church that is teaching God's truth? Read, study and meditate on the scriptures. If what the church leaders are teaching does not jive with what the Bible says they are not teaching the truth. Simple as that.

Leverdude said:
Alot of guys here see Jaeger as contriversal it seems & maybe even a trouble maker. I dissagree & I think he's seeking answers, enlightenment if you will.
Groucho Marx used a routine where he would ask a gentleman something to the affect "Just answer me with Yes or No have you stopped beating your wife?" Obviously Groucho didn't care what the answer was he was seeking a reaction from the audience.

Leverdude said:
Jesus & his Apostles taught that a true follower of our Lord ought to sell all their stuff & give the money at the feet of the Apostles so all would have what they need & none should go without.
Another fallacy that I often hear repeated. Christ taught that you should not allow money or posessions to rule your life and come between you and God. Christ did teach that we are to take care of the helpless (those who can not care for themselves) however he did not advocate that we distribute our wealth equally amongst everyone. In fact he was very much apposed to a free ride for anyone.

There is nothing wrong with seeking the truth, just be careful where you seek it.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Leverdude!
"Alot of guys here see Jaeger as contriversal it seems & maybe even a trouble maker. I dissagree & I think he's seeking answers, enlightenment if you will."

By golly there son, you have a huge amount of insight!
You are, of course, 100 % correct.

I'll not be intimidated by superstition or tradition, or small minds. I want to seek the truth and I pray for direction from a source greater than mankind.

There is NOTHING WRONG with controversy. It inspire thought.

Wolfsong ahs a preat point also. One can choose to disregard and be quiet, a point for me to ponder I might add. :-D :-D


BRETT: You really should understand more about the human condition, the soul, and what makes man so darn SPECIAL.
EGO = "Ego" means "I" in Latin; the original German word Freud applied was "Ich".) He stated that the Ego consists of our conscious sense of self and world, a highly structured set of unconscious defenses that are central in defining both individual differences in character or personality, the symptoms and inhibitions that define the neuroses, and ultimately serving as the executive branch of the mind which leads to action. Relying on experience, a healthy Ego provides the ability to adapt to reality and interact with the outside world in a way that accommodates both Id and Superego."

That is the most basic of MANY definitions of the EGO.
An out of balance ego is a bad thing.
Do your forget how many times I've posted about the out of balance E.G.O. meaning "ease, God, out" ?
The ego is your sense of "self" it defines who you are and and what you are about.
You NEED an ego. Without an ego you absolutely would suffer from disorders that might get you a padded room.
I'd suggest you examine what Jesus meant when he said to deny your "self".
 

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Brett says:
"Ego is all about self, self centeredness, self gratification, placing ones self first, I, me, mine."

You are only partially correct in you skewed statement of 'ego'.

You seem to be describing some sort of egocentricty, perhaps even a psychological disorder.
Anyway you certainly are describing an unhealthy ego, perhaps hedonistic?
 

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Bret wrote,
Leverdude wrote:
Jesus & his Apostles taught that a true follower of our Lord ought to sell all their stuff & give the money at the feet of the Apostles so all would have what they need & none should go without.


Another fallacy that I often hear repeated. Christ taught that you should not allow money or posessions to rule your life and come between you and God. Christ did teach that we are to take care of the helpless (those who can not care for themselves) however he did not advocate that we distribute our wealth equally amongst everyone. In fact he was very much apposed to a free ride for anyone.
Ok, it wasn't Jesus himself. I found the passage I was refering to in Acts4:32 - 37 & 5- 5:10

4:32 All the believers were one in heart & mind. No one claimed that any of his posessions was his own, but they shared everything they had.

4:34 There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 4:35 & put it at the Apostles feet & it was distributed to anyone as he had need.
4:36 Joseph, A levite from Cyprus, whome the Apostles called Barnabas (Which means son of encouragement), 4:37 sold a field he owned & brought the money & put it at the Apostles feet.

Then in the next paragraph they deal with what happens to someone lieing to God by keeping some money for himself.

Acts-5 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Saphira, also sold a piece of property. 5:2 With his wifes full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest & put it at the Apostles feet.
5:3 Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and kept for yourself some of the money you recieved for the land? 5:4 Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God." 5:5 When Ananias heard this, he fell down & died.

Later on his wife came by & lied to Peter as well with the same results.

So, if one reads this literally & believes theres not much question but that its good & pleasing to God to sell your properties & turn them over to the Church.

I'll be spending time trying to see if Jesus himself preached this doctrine or if its something the Apostles came up with themselves.


I dont know what to say about the cancer example you gave except the truth that a child can die from cancer makes sense, anyone can. They know what killed her & how & in many cases they can find out why. If they take the time to try.

Also the truth that sometimes smokers & drunks live long lives makes sense because not everyone gets sick. Its a bigger mystery tho, likely because theres less drive to find out why an old person doesn't die than there is to find why a young one did.

There is nothing wrong with seeking the truth, just be careful where you seek it.
Thanks, I apreciate your thoughts. :grin: I tend to seek the truth in the Bible. As you know I'm new hereabouts & wish to learn from anyone who has Faith & is willing to share it. :D
 

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EGO

My last word on egos: I am right in the middle (age-wise)of four sisters and have been married three times. My ego was put in check alooooong time ago. By the way, has anyone seen my [email protected]? My current wife took possesion of them and I haven't seen em since... So much for MY ego. Peace and God bless, Wolfsong.
 

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brett wrote,
Leverdude wrote:
Jesus & his Apostles taught that a true follower of our Lord ought to sell all their stuff & give the money at the feet of the Apostles so all would have what they need & none should go without.


Another fallacy that I often hear repeated. Christ taught that you should not allow money or posessions to rule your life and come between you and God. Christ did teach that we are to take care of the helpless (those who can not care for themselves) however he did not advocate that we distribute our wealth equally amongst everyone. In fact he was very much apposed to a free ride for anyone.


Leverdude said:
Ok, it wasn't Jesus himself. I found the passage I was refering to in Acts4:32 - 37 & 5- 5:10

4:32 All the believers were one in heart & mind. No one claimed that any of his posessions was his own, but they shared everything they had.
I look at it this way, all that we have comes from God and therefor is God's. I may have worked to earn a wage but who gave me the ability to perform the work? God. Think of your possessions as being 'on loan' from God. He has the right to reclame it at any time.

Leverdude said:
4:34 There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 4:35 & put it at the Apostles feet & it was distributed to anyone as he had need.
4:36 Joseph, A levite from Cyprus, whome the Apostles called Barnabas (Which means son of encouragement), 4:37 sold a field he owned & brought the money & put it at the Apostles feet.
A collection was taken up to meet specific needs as they arose. As I stated earlier God want's us to care for the helpless. God's Word also admonishes those who are capable of working but are lazy and refuse to work. "If a man will not work, he shall not eat". (2 Thessalonians 3:10)

Leverdude said:
Then in the next paragraph they deal with what happens to someone lieing to God by keeping some money for himself.

Acts-5 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Saphira, also sold a piece of property. 5:2 With his wifes full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest & put it at the Apostles feet.
5:3 Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and kept for yourself some of the money you recieved for the land? 5:4 Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God." 5:5 When Ananias heard this, he fell down & died.

Later on his wife came by & lied to Peter as well with the same results.
The sin that they were punished for was lying to God not keeping some of the money from the sale of the property.

Leverdude said:
So, if one reads this literally & believes theres not much question but that its good & pleasing to God to sell your properties & turn them over to the Church.
How then do you explain the great wealth God allowed Abram, King David, King Solomon and many others who found favor with God yet still retained their possessions?

Leverdude said:
I'll be spending time trying to see if Jesus himself preached this doctrine or if its something the Apostles came up with themselves.
Please consider what I have written. As with everything, test it carefully using the scriptures as your litmus. See if what I have told you does not make sense.

quote="Leverdude"]Thanks, I appreciate your thoughts. :grin: I tend to seek the truth in the Bible. As you know I'm new hereabouts & wish to learn from anyone who has Faith & is willing to share it. :D
The Bible is the best place to seek the truth. Sometimes it is helpful if someone can point us to the right page. I thank the Lord that He has sent many people to point me to the right page over the years. :wink:
 

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Bret wrote.
The Bible is the best place to seek the truth. Sometimes it is helpful if someone can point us to the right page. I thank the Lord that He has sent many people to point me to the right page over the years. Wink

I thank you Sir. :grin: Something else to check out. I will say now before retiring for the night that things seem to have undergone a Big change once Jesus came.

How then do you explain the great wealth God allowed Abram, King David, King Solomon and many others who found favor with God yet still retained their possessions?
Correct me if I'm wrong but the wealth afforded the Kings in the OT hasn't happened in the Christian era.

Thanks again. :D
 
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