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Turned the TV on this morning at 5:15AM, and the first thing I heard on the news was that Obama turned down ALL FOUR OPTIONS from his "war council" ;), concerning a solution in Afghanistan.
Now I have not made it any secret here on these forums that I was, and AM against ever going into Iraq, and I have also shared that after my son's two tours over there, with first hand knowledge, he pretty much agrees with me.
BUT! We're there, and we are also in Afghanistan, which I was not against going there but, not with troops, but instead with enough bombers to level the place.
I have been wanting the troops HOME for some time now, because I would hope that everyone is finally realizing that we are spinning our wheels in two countries where the sand is soft, the politics softer,and it is very easy to get stuck.
It is in my opinion, TIME TO BRING THEM HOME. Call it a defeat, call it what ever you wish, but we now have the WEAKEST, AND GOOFIEST CONGRESS IN THE HISTORY OF AMERICAN GOVERNMENT, and THE MOST RADICAL ANTI-AMERICAN, ANTI-AMERICAN MILITARY PRESIDENT IN HISTORY.
Neither the Congress, nor the president "COLLECTIVELY" support, nor care about the fate COLLECTIVLY, of our troops.
The situation WORSENS, in Afghanistan, and as soon as the fighters in Iraq smell blood, it also will go to **** in a hand basket. Let's call it a day, and bring our sons, daughters, fathers, and mothers, home. There is no need for more of them to die, when such a government has such an attitude of EXPENDIBILITY, and an even more obvious attitude that winning, is simply not that important. Now that's my opinion, so the rest may fire away.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I know one was to send 40,000+ reinforcements to Afghanistan, as they have lost the initiative, and the whole thing is deteriorating. McCristal says we are losing. That in itself should be enough, but instead the president goes on David Letterman, and the Congress wails away about health care.
 

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The Secretary General of NATO just announced that he wants to begin transition of the security of Afghanistan to the Afghan government. Looks like NATO wants to hand the whole enchilada to the Afghan government and bug. This is most likely the most prudent approach. Karzai is never going to clean up his act and the entire Afghan government is infiltrated by al Queda and the Taliban.


LONDON – The secretary general of NATO said Thursday that alliance forces should begin handing responsibility to Afghan forces in a coordinated way next year in areas where conditions permit.

Anders Fogh Rasmussen issued a statement after talks in London with British Prime Minister Gordon Brown. The talks come as President Barack Obama weighs a decision on sending more troops to Afghanistan — though alliance nations have been reluctant to commit more troops.

The NATO chief and Brown agree that transition to Afghan leadership is the way forward.

"We can and should start next year to hand lead responsibility to Afghan forces in a coordinated way through NATO where conditions permit," Fogh Rasmussen said in the statement.

Brown, echoed by German Chancellor Angela Merkel, said this week that handovers in the volatile southern province of Helmand could begin as early as June. Most of Britain's 9,000 troops are based in Helmand.
 

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I agree with Dee. And for those saying the terroist will follow them home , That might be a bad idea . The American people have been repsented in this struggle by its military . when allowed to fight they have won . When they were restricted they have survived and won at a heavy cost . Most Americans I know are fed up with the politics involved and pizzed off at the fact these hemriods are still around , if they show up here they may meet there maker faster than they are ready to do so . It may be the last straw . There are alot of us old farts that are saying if its got to happen lets get on with it before i get to old to fight ! I'm already to old to run .
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Shut our southern borders down, and the mexicans can take the dope themselves. ;)
 

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Karzai claims unidentified helicopters are ferrying Taliban mercs around,,giving them weapons and ammo. Others have claimed none other than it is israelis.....others claim nothing odd more than usual. Remember the first tenant of war in the ART of War...?....Maybe this is just another dope war afterall......fyi...TM7

Karzai Claims Mystery Helicopters Ferrying Taliban to North Afghanistan
Publication: Terrorism Monitor Volume: 7 Issue: 33November 6, 2009 12:42 PM Age: 5 daysCategory: Terrorism Monitor, Global Terrorism Analysis, Home Page, Military/Security, Afghanistan
By: Andrew McGregor

While the Western press has been occupied recently with accounts of fraudulent elections in Afghanistan and the alleged role of President Hamid Karzai’s brother as a paid CIA agent, a stranger but perhaps more instructive story was playing out in Afghanistan that reveals the rather shallow penetration NATO and Coalition efforts have made in building trust and confidence in that country, as well as giving some indication of what can be expected from a Karzai administration that does not sense full support from its former backers in the West as it begins a second term. In addition the controversy demonstrates the very different perceptions of the counterterrorism struggle in the West and in Afghanistan.

For several weeks now, Afghanistan has been consumed by stories of mysterious “foreign helicopters” ferrying Taliban fighters to a new front in northern Afghanistan. These helicopters are alleged by no less than President Karzai to belong to “foreign powers” such as the United States and its allies. The helicopters are said to land in remote regions, but their activity has supposedly been noted by nomads who travel through the deserts of Baghlan and Kunduz province (Hasht-e Sobh, October 13).

Without mentioning guilty parties or offering evidence, President Karzai suggested the reports of helicopters delivering terrorists to north Afghanistan were true, saying, “We have received reliable reports from our intelligence service. We have received reliable reports from our people, and today I received a report that these efforts [to transfer Taliban fighters] are also being made mysteriously in the northwest. The issue of helicopters has also been proved. We do not make any more comments now and investigations are under way to see to whom and to which foreign country these helicopters belong” (Tolo TV, October 11). According to Karzai, the “unknown” helicopters had been taking Taliban fighters to Baghlan, Kunduz and Samangan provinces in northern Afghanistan. The president’s remarks were quickly followed by a call from the Lower House speaker, Muhammad Yunis Qanuni, for a government debate on the issue. “When the president of Afghanistan, as the first man of the country, is raising a fact and a problem, then it shows that the problem is important and serious.” According to Takhar MP Habiba Danesh, the helicopter airlifts were already underway before the elections (Tolo TV [Kabul], October 13; Ferghana.ru, October 12; Hasht-e Sobh [Kabul], October 13).

Kunduz governor Muhammad Omar claimed the fighters being brought to his province at night were members of the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU), a group that recently lost its longtime leader Tahir Yuldash and is now hard pressed by the Pakistani government in South Waziristan, their home since 2001. The governor pointed to the detention of 15 militants by U.S. Special Forces south of Kunduz, whom he described as supporters of the late Tahir Yuldash (Afghan Islamic Press, October 11; Eurasia.net, October 13). At the same time, the governor noted the security situation in his province was improving (Tolo TV, October 11). The governor of Baghlan province, Muhammad Akbar Barakzai, also claims to have received intelligence that unidentified military helicopters are making midnight landings in remote areas of his province (Tolo TV, October 21).

Dr. Abdullah Abdullah, Karzai’s former rival for the presidency, accuses the Afghan government of being behind the transfer of Taliban fighters to the northern provinces. “They have sent to the north of the country the most evil people, the most notorious and criminal people who are involved in killing the people of Afghanistan and crime against the people of Afghanistan… I have the names of these people; they sent them to the north by helicopters so that they carry out their mission. Is this a government?” (Tolo TV, October 11).

Iran’s state television network, Press TV, sought to exploit the controversy by adding a large number of details to the helicopter story in an October 17 report, all according to unnamed “diplomats”:

• The British Army was responsible for relocating Taliban fighters with Chinook helicopters to the northern provinces from Helmand province in south Afghanistan (though this might come as a surprise to critics of the UK’s Ministry of Defence, who have suggested the military has not provided enough transport helicopters to meet British needs – BBC, August 30).

• The death of Afghan interpreter Sultan Munadi in a September British Special Forces raid that freed a New York Times reporter from Taliban captivity, has already been a controversial issue in Afghanistan, with repeated calls for an inquiry into the circumstances of his death. Press TV claimed Munadi was killed during the raid by a British sniper because he had documents and photographs verifying the British role in the alleged airlift.

• American forces were supplying the Taliban militants in north Afghanistan with weapons seized during the 2001 invasion. Most date back to the era of Soviet occupation.

• Afghan Interior Minister Mohammad Hanif Atmar, a British educated Pashtun, was working under the direction of the UK. The Interior Ministry has funneled arms to the newly relocated Taliban through Pashtun police officers. The distribution of arms to Taliban fighters by the Afghan police was also reported by Kabul daily Arman-e Melli on October 13.

Not all Afghan officials believe in the nocturnal activities of the “mystery helicopters.” Amrullah Saleh, the chief of the National Directorate of Security (NDS – the Tajik-dominated national security agency), dismissed the helicopter reports, as did many other members of Afghanistan’s security services. Amrullah maintains that the reports are designed solely with the intention of reducing trust in Western forces engaged in Afghanistan (Hasht-e Sobh, October 13). Even a member of Karzai’s campaign team, MP Nur Akbari, noted diplomatically that the president’s assertions were “unexpected,” saying that security officials had not provided any such information in the past (Hasht-e Sobh, October 13). President Karzai’s endorsement of the “mystery helicopter” theory compelled U.S. ambassador to Afghanistan Karl Eikenberry to issue a clear denial of “the rumors about the reinforcement of the Afghan government’s armed opposition in the north by the U.S.A. These rumors are baseless” (Tolo TV, October 14).

Nevertheless, one Afghan daily reported widespread belief in the “mystery helicopter” phenomenon. “The people strongly believe that these helicopters belong to the British and U.S. forces. They also believe that these helicopters have transferred some armed residents of the neighboring provinces to northern provinces and the killing of several armed men from these areas in the north seem to confirm this issue” (Arman-e Melli [Kabul], October 13).

It was not long before the “mystery helicopters” were seen in Pakistan, where the “foreign allies” of the Tehrik-e Taliban Pakistan (TTP) were alleged to be rescuing Taliban militants from the government offensive in South Waziristan. An Islamabad daily reported the belief of “some experts” that the airlift was part of a deal between the Western nations and the so-called “good Taliban” (Pakistan Observer [Islamabad], October 19).

Existing rumors of a Western airlift of Taliban fighters were no doubt adopted and exploited by the Karzai administration to express its displeasure with the West’s refusal to rubber stamp his election victory, but they mask a more serious problem – how has the Taliban managed to expand its operations in the north and what can be done to stop it before the Taliban is in a position to interfere with vital NATO supply lines that cross the region? By endorsing such rumors, President Karzai appears ready to endanger years of Western civil and military efforts in Afghanistan if he feels it necessary to ensure his domestic political survival.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Did anyone read all that?
 

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::) Back to them darn Jews agin. ::)

I say when we leave we scorch the earth of all life in Afganistan. maybe even make it so life can't live there for several thousands of years.
 

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Questor there is still alot of roaches scampering around there.
 

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Why don't we develop a locust that destroys poppy crops?. No drug money, no taliban. Hard to believe, but as in Mexico and Afganistan, we supply the demand for drugs and thus the money to support terrorists. Close our borders.


The Hermit
 

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Within a month after 9/11 if the US gave very public warning to Afgan citizens that every building would be bombed, inspected, then bombed again, every building, it would have been very accepted by the public, made more sense, and would have had the teeth to make it's mark. We as Americans deal with scumbags here. Today I received a validated complaint about two 10 yr old kids knocking on doors during the middle of the day at an apartment complex. They did this only to report back to their drug dealing parents as to who was home at what hours and who to burglarize during the day when folks are at work. Evil lurks behind every corner. You don't have to go overseas, just look around the corner. If we surrender in Afganistan, and something else happens in the US that is traced back to the area of Afganistan, Lord help the ones that have to explain that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I awoke this morning to the news on TV that Obama and company have decided to bring the master mind of 911 and all his co-conspirators to New York City for trial rather than try him in Gitmo, in a military trial. Some may ignorantly say that this is a good thing, however, he will, as Fox News stated this morning be "LAWYERED UP" with the best in the business, and given all the allegations of torture, could get a much lessor sentence or even be released.
With the current SEASON, we are in at D.C., if I were a soldier in any branch of the military, I would be quite nervous. AND! With the current SEASON in D.C. we are in, I believe it would be best, to call it a day, in both Afghanistan, and DEFINATELY Iraq, and pull out troops out. They are being killed, for nothing, and we cannot win with what we have in D.C.
The government of BOTH COUNTRIES, will continue UNCHECKED into corruption, and OUR ALREADY CORRUPT GOVERNMENT HERE, will not let out troops win. MY opinion, you don't have to agree.
 

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Dee said:
Did anyone read all that?
.
Your thread....your questions. Ignore away if you perfer. opr you could always read the last paragraph. That is some of the info on Afghanistan even surfacing main stream and around the world, but not here so much...other posts here on tangent topic. The whole Afghani situation seems to be degrading to a drug war, aka "Operation Dope" ( a good book to read, btw), and as Gen S Butler accurately warned in his great book, too. I wouldn't be surprised China fills the void in the end, and gets all that Caucus oil and gas, AND gets to control the world's opium/narcotics trade to boot, which is the world's fourth or fifth industry.

Trialing the accussed 911 perps in NY makes sense...since that is where the officially accounted 'crimes-attack' took place and Gitmo is of questionable legality to begin with. The show must go on....sit back and enjoy it.


..TM7
 
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