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Discussion Starter #1
so i am still new to this whole H&R thing....i shot 40 rds through my heavy 223 ultra before sending it to the factory for the 308 and 270 ultra comp.....so i have been reading..asking..reading..reading..did i mention reading? and havn't been able to put any of this info to good use yet since i have not yet recieved the rifle back....quickdtoo seems to be the one that responds to me most as well as a few others who offer excellent welcomed advice! Thanks......

now...i been reading about this polishing of the bore and chamber? is this required for good shooting and groups? i am one of those skittish people who doesn;t like to modify stuff much or do things like that (i get nervous easy! :shock: ) i have had the stuck casing problem with my 223 but i am not sure if it was because i was using 5.56 ammo to start with..since i switched to .223rem ammo i have not had the problem....so what i am asking is...is it required for them to be good shooters? (and who lives close to S.E.Michigan whos got experience doing it :lol: )
 

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Generally speaking, the rimless calibers have a tendacy to have stuck cases, the chamber polish eliminates or reduces this occurence, which most attribute to the chamber being left somewhat rough from the factory. The bore polishing lapping reduces the required break in which is normal for any new factory bore. The effects of shooting 150-200 rounds is easily accomplished by polishing/lapping the bore and shooting 40-50 rounds....or less!!

Tim
 

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only shot my ultra about 40 rds before went

ok...is this process difficult to screw something up? remember i am a nervous person.....i get real nervous when the first case stuck..i flew back to the gun shop.....and i am not quite clear on what makes a case rimless or not...is the 308 and 270 rimless? how about the 223? is there a web reference where i can read up on this?
 

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A rimmed case has a rim that is larger than the body of the case like a .30-30..... the 308, 270 and .223 are all rimless.

Polishing the bore with flitz, JB bore compound, Maas, Simichrome or any fine metal polish won't hurt the bore, all it does it make it smoother, just like shooting it does.

Tim
 

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only shot my ultra about 40 rds before went

I always like to shoot in my barrels , but i did polish the chambers on my .223 /.270 just because they are rimless rounds.

Did the .22 mag just because i could and when my new .22 mag and .17 hmr come in i'll do them too.

I use a empty case with a screw in it , my batt. drill and some ultra fine rubbing compound. it's not hard to do , and then clean it real well 8)
 

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only shot my ultra about 40 rds before went

I always polish new barrels with JB Bore Paste. Its pretty easy just follow the direstions and you will be fine. You may want to look at faqs for barrel break in also.

Norse
 

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only shot my ultra about 40 rds before went

Pick up a copy of a Lyman Reloading Manual, it has more info on case rims, but there are 5 kinds of case heads...

Rimmed.....think 30-30, 45-70, 357 Magnum, 44 Magnum, etc

Semi-rimmed.... think 7.62x54R, (the big Russian)

Rimless... think 223, 308, 270, 9mm Parabellum (aka Luger, Nato) 45 ACP

Belted.... think 7mm Remington Magnum, 300 Wincester Magnum,
375 H&H Magnum

Rebated.....think 300 Winchester Short Magnum, 284 Winchester

Dimensioned drawings will explain the rest, have fun uncovering the rest of the story :D
 

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Discussion Starter #8
only shot my ultra about 40 rds before went

not to get to far off subject but in order for me to polish the bores i need a rod and either a jag or a brush to put a patch around and the compund to polish right? if so...what is the best cleaning rod for the job...i have shyed away from cleaning rods lately because i hate hitting the bore with them..so i use patch worms and boresnakes.....maybe a carbon fiber coated one piece ball bearing handle rod? i don;t know....


and so alls i have to do is get brushes of the correct caliber..a rod...wrap a patch around the brush and apply a small amount of a select compund..run it in and out repeatedly about 40-50 times reapplying every 4-5 strokes correct? and then how do i get something the size of the chambers? i got 3 barrels coming back 223..308..and 270...thanks for all your guys help... :oops: newbies really appreciate honest up front answers from experienced people!
 

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The Patchworm will work too, I use them on my 17hmrs and 204 Ruger cuz I don't like the rod flex in the small bore. Just be careful at the muzzle when you pull it thru, make sure it comes straight out the muzzle and don't let the line rub the crown of the muzzle.

Tim
 

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only shot my ultra about 40 rds before went

so i just take the patchworm and put some flitz or jb bore on it and pull it through about 30-40 times? do i reapply everytime or just every 3 - 4 times? and i thought that if the line touched the muzzle or bore it wasn't that big of a deal thats why i use them.
 

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With the abrasive on the line and in the bore, it can damage it, you should always try to keep the line pull straight out the muzzle even without the polish because there is carbon in the bore which can also act as an abrasive. I change patch and add more polish every 3 or for strokes.

Tim
 

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only shot my ultra about 40 rds before went

as far as cleaning out the abrasive when your finished..i assume you need to do this because leaving it in will cause more abrassion than you want.....how do you get a real thorough clean and tell when it's all gone? use hoppes?...boresnake? i want to be well informed before i even start this process....and one last thing..any recommendations on polish before i hit the gun store..flitz or jb bore polish..etc??
 

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only shot my ultra about 40 rds before went

stimpylu32 said:
I use a empty case with a screw in it , my batt. drill and some ultra fine rubbing compound. it's not hard to do , and then clean it real well 8)
could you elaborate a little more on this...do you wrap a patch around the casing? how fast and how long do you do this for? and what polishing compound do you use and how do you clean it out really good



sorry if i am being bothersome guys :oops:
 

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quickdtoo said:
Polishing the bore with flitz, JB bore compound, Maas, Simichrome or any fine metal polish......

Tim
:wink:
 

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only shot my ultra about 40 rds before went

870 expressmag said:
as far as cleaning out the abrasive when your finished..i assume you need to do this because leaving it in will cause more abrassion than you want.....how do you get a real thorough clean and tell when it's all gone? use hoppes?...boresnake? i want to be well informed before i even start this process....and one last thing..any recommendations on polish before i hit the gun store..flitz or jb bore polish..etc??

If I can contribute here...I flush with Rem Oil and clean patches...push thru from the chamber...drop off the patch...pull a clean patch back from the muzzle...then I use Hoppes # 9...more Rem-Oil and then Shooters Choice Bore cleaner.. till all the patches are clean and free of the Flitz or JB.....allow me to digress a-bit here...

My routine is a bit more involved...What I do before anything though is to completely remove ALL traces of copper fouling in the barrel before lapping it.....and I use a foaming bore cleaner and a Nylon brush and patches.... and then clean with Barnes CR-10...following all directions...and I flush the bore out with Rem-oil between using different cleaning agents....Once the barrel is completely clean...then...and only then do I start hand lapping it...and I do mean perfectly clean...not just a one time quickie either...you want to make your passes thru the barrel even and lap the barrel...not the copper fouling that may be inside...but you don't want to remove a lot of metal in the bore either...but to smooth up and burrs or nicks ...

The thing to remember up at the muzzle is to not push the oversized bore mop all the way out of the muzzle...if you do...you may damage the crown...so push the mop almost all the way out...then pull it back thru and out the chamber end...reapply your Flitz or JB Bore paste then...and yes...depending on how much polishing you need to do to your bore...reapply every 3-5 complete passes...Every rifle bore is different...depending on what condition yours is in will determine how much lapping is needed...

A good sense of touch is needed as well...unless you have access to a bore scope where you can actually look at the rifling in the bore...you will need to run very tight fitting patches thru it..feeling for super tight spots and checking the patches for snags on your patches...this is something you will have to do...after it is all lapped and polished to see if you are done...if not...you do a-little more...clean...patch it again...you do this until you are satisfied with it...


This isn't a fast process...one you can just do in a few minutes...you can...but the results won't be as good as if you had taken your time the first time...again...this is one of the jobs...where you get out of it...what you put into it...I usually plan on spending between 3 to 5 hours for each barrel...Most folks who are only used to giving their guns a once over...will have a hard time with this concept...:)

One other thing...this isn't a gaurentee that it will improve your groups...there are never any gaurentee's...but the odds are in you favour it will...especially if you have bought a used barrel...you never know if it's been cleaned poorly or even at all...it's always best to be a pessimistic optimist... I plan for the worst...hope for the best... :lol:

Mac
 

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only shot my ultra about 40 rds before went

Here's a copy of some posts I made on this subject from this thread......[/color]

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=388927&highlight=#388927

Hope this helps clear up the muddy water a bit. [/color]:D



Better pull it completely apart and give it a thorough cleaning. Pull the buttstock by removing the recoil pad, then a 9/16 socket on a long extension or two together to remove the stock bolt in the bottom of the hole. Remove the foreend and the barrel. You should have 5 parts now; pad, buttstock, action, barrel, and foreend. Flush the action real good from every angle and in every opening you can find with brake cleaner, then quickly follow up with some good lubricant, I use Tri-Flow, but any good one that leaves a teflon coating will work. Let it get alll over the receiver and wipe it off good as this will restore the lustre that the brake cleaner will dull. Next clean and polish that barrel! Use Sweets 7:62 or another good amonia based solvent first, then make 50 passes with some Flitz or JB Bore Bright (not Bore Paste). Then flush it out with some Outers bore scrubber or similiar product, dry patch it really good and then Sweet's it again, and then dry patch really good again, and then apply a light coat of Rem oil or good gun oil. Something else I do, that I've been doing since I was a kid, is to apply a coat of Vaseline to all the metal surfaces, worked 30 years ago and still works now.
Sounds like a lot of work I know, but it will be worth it when you go to the range for the first time. Don't forget to bore-sight your scope beforehand too. You have purchased one the most infamously accurate shooters in a Handi Rifle so feel confident. I'd stay away from those 60 grainers to start with though, probably will shoot them after a 100 or so rounds tho. Good shootin' and keep us posted.


One thing that I did forget to mention is that before I reassemble the gun I BLOW the receiver out thoroughly. I have a bobtail truck with glad-hand attachments for a trailer so I purchased one of the air hoses that attaches to it and I blow the receiver out until it is dry, I mean until I'm sure it's dry of the Tri-flow and only the teflon residue is left. This could be done with the canned air like is used on a computer but would take longer and probably a few cans. I know that one of the blower attachments can be bought at Wal-Mart and maybe, if you can find any FREE air anymore, it could be done at a service station.
I only use the Tri-Flow for lubricant in the receiver, yes, but only after I have blown it out good. Technically anything that is moist or lubricated will collect crud. Just redo the flush before every season and you should be alright. I used to use CLP before I discovered the Tri-Flow.
The brake cleaner will cut just about anything and dries DRY. That's why I use it. But it will make you think it has even cut the blue off your gun too. Just hit it with any oil or gun lube right afterwards and it shines right back up.
One other thing that I do is after I have cleaned the barrel I use a cotton ball wrapped around a piece of cleaning rod dipped in rubbing alcohol and swab out the chamber, this cleans any lubricant out and pretty much stops the stuck cases issue. This can be done before you store it or right before you head out to hunt or to the range, but should be done before you shoot it after this "surgery".
The new Ultra Varmint .243 that I just purchased was the cleanest H&R from the factory that I have ever gotten, but I wouldn't have known that had I not gone thru this process.
Takes about an hour or so after you've done it a couple of times, well worth the effort. My .243 put shots #9 and #10 at .676 center to center.


One question though? Why the brake cleaner treatment? Is it to get the grease off the lockup?
Yea and every other moving part. H&R's are notoriously dirty from the factory and if your gun was never cleaned like this, probably still is. I've handled guns in pawn shops that were 2-5 years old and still had the factory "gunk" on them. You can always tell by rubbing your finger across the breech face and if it comes back black and greasy then there ya go. If your gun is older than one year, if it has a serial number in which the second letter is before a "U" or a "V", then I would clean it really good, heck I'd do it anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
only shot my ultra about 40 rds before went

so after reading all of this i have gotten a good handle on what to do....thing is i have a .17hmr that i never broke in....i get impatient and want to shoot.....well the 270 and 308 have never been shot so cleaning those should be easy but the 223 has been shot so i am assuming i should get some sweets 7.62 and make sure thats darn good and clean before doing this other process? also i will be using a boresnake...so let me get this all straight and clear....clean the barrel GOOD....then run some polish on the boresnake patch..change patch and reapply every 3-4 swipes....do this 20-40 times....run patches soaked with rem oil down the barrel to flush to polish...then dry patches to dry it out..then clean the barrel as normal before firing? then clean every couple of rounds for a while??

once again sorry guys if it seems like i am beating a dead horse but there is so much difference in everything it's hard to find something to side with
 

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I wouldn't recommend using the boresnake for this kind of work, a good rod, jag and patches or a bore mop would be best. An economy version would be the Patchworm, kind of a cross between a boresnake and a cleaning rod. In my opinion, a boresnake is a field cleaning tool, best used once, or twice in the field, then washed before its next use. Using it multiple times would be just like reusing cleaning patches and I know most shooters would not do that. Once the snake has been pulled thru the bore, it has picked up carbon, dragging it thru the bore again makes that carbon an abrasive that may result in undesired results if used enough.

www.patchworm.com

Tim

edit: I would also recommend against using solvent on the boresnake brush, any copper solvent on the brush will disolve it over time just like the copper in the bore. A lot of users remove the brush from their boresnakes since bronze brushes are considered detrimental to bores by many.

If you get a good one piece rod, also get a bore guide or some sort, I use the little muzzle guards on my Handi barrels, they ride on the rod an when cleaned from the breech, fit right in the chamber opening to center the rod and prevent contact at the throat which is as susceptible to damage as the crown at the muzzle.

http://store.kleen-bore.com/store/product381.html
 

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First off...I don't use a bore snake to polish the bore...I like them...but I don't use them for this...I use stainless steel rods...and Tynex brushes...I'll use the bore snakes for a quick clean up then wash them to get rid of the copper and carbon on them...it was pointed out to me that I was just pulling all the junk back thru the bore on the 2nd pass ...so I stopped using them...

Second...having a perfectly clean bore is paramount to me before lapping it...

Third...as Like2hunt has told ya...you really should clean you firearms before shooting them removing all the factory left over shavings and heavy oil...

Fourth...unless you cut the rifling yourself in your 270 and 308...they have been shot...this is done before the barrels are shipped out...and that doesn't make it easy to lap the bore...it all depends on how good a job was done on the rifling process...

Fifth...I use very large cans of spray rem-oil and spray flush the barrels out...so I'm not just running soaked patches thru it...I spray a lot of it in and let it run out then I patch.

Six... For new barrels I clean completely and lap as needed...clean again then...shoot 1x..clean normally...shoot 1x clean normally...shoot 1x clean normally...do this for the first 5 shots then clean normally...then shoot in groups of 3...doing it again for 5x...then clean the bore out completely again..if I feel lapping will help...I lap it again......used barrels I clean completely...then patch checking for tight spots and snags on the patch...then lap as needed...then shoot in groups of 3...if I feel I need to lap again...I repeat the process...


Like I said some folks won't go thru all of this...but it is a routine I got into many many years ago...and it works for me...

Mac
 

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Discussion Starter #20
only shot my ultra about 40 rds before went

well i am not new to shooting..but from various forums i have picked up on so much stuff that makes a whole lot of sense and i want to start trying this stuff...so i guess in conclusion...and so all of your email inboxes can rest from geting thread update emails.....since i havn't been doing this..is that why i get frustrated when cleaning and can usually hardly ever get a clean patch at the end and usually end up and just get it "good enough"?
 
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