[Lawdog]

Got to thinking that some of you may be interested in a test that was done on "Terminal Pellet Testing". In this they showed the different make pellets and how they expanded for hunting purposes in .177 and .22 caliber pellets. Click on the link below. Lawdog


http://home.hiwaay.net/~ispellan/PelletTest02.html

 

[Questor]

Thanks, I'll read it.

Expansion isn't what I look for in a hunting pellet. I want penetration and bloodletting. The best and most effective pellets I use for hunting are pointed pellets.

 

[Lawdog]

Questor,

I used to think that way too but I got tired of loosing brush bunnies down a hole in the ground inside of huge brush piles where they live. I used to use Silver Jets that acted just like a solid in centerfire rifle. In one side and out the other. Did the same on birds. I found that a flat nose pellet like a wad cutter target type pellet kills birds quicker than any hollow point. I'm talking about body hits not head shots. The turkey I took last fall didn't go 10 yards after a body hit from a Crow Magnum .20 pellet at 40 yards. The pellet was recovered just under the skin on the off side and it measured .384". It destroyed the heart and lungs and didn't ruin as much meat as a shotgun would have. To me pellets are just like bullets, they need to expand to do their job which is to kill quickly. Lawdog

 

[Dieselnutts]

Lawdog. Do you have any experience with these? I am curious as to
how well they work.


http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...belas/en/content/Pod/01/41/90/p014190ii01.jpg

Jamie

 

[Lawdog]

Dieselnutts,

No I haven't. They do look interesting though. To bad they only come in .177 or .22 as I use a .20(5mm) Crow Magnum IV. BUT I do own a couple of scoped Crosmen Classic 1377's that I keep around for getting rid of pests around the shed and barn, so I have just sent in an order for two tins to see what they will do. Be interesting to see how they will perform on woodpeckers and flickers that keep wanting to nest in my attic, barn and shed. If they work like Nosler Ballistic Tips in centerfire's then these birds should be no problem. Thank you for bringing them to my attention. I'll post here how they work. Lawdog

 

[22MK1]

Lawdog. Do you have any experience with these? I am curious as to
how well they work.
Jamie

They are total garbage. They are just about the most inaccurate pellt made. Unless you are hnting with a very high powered PCP airgun, hollow points are pretty nuch a joke because they loos so much of their energy downrange that they don't expand.

For a good comparison of various pellets ballistics go to(you'll notice that they don't even sell the "devastator" pellets and you'll be hard pressed to find any any dealer who actaully shoots airguns who does):
http://www.straightshooters.com/docs/sschooseapellet.html
For Example, go to this link for say at Beeman R-1 which is a "magnum" airgun and then click through the links for various pelllets out of it and compare the FPE at various ranges. Look at the Beeman Crow Magnum and the RWS Super Hollow Point and compare the FPE delivered at 25 yards with the Crosman Premier for instance. The hollow points may expand 10 yards from the barrel but they're be so out of energy buy the time they get to 50 yards, they'll bouce off a squirrel.
http://www.straightshooters.com/ourtake/r1grid.html

 

[22MK1]

Thanks, I'll read it.

Expansion isn't what I look for in a hunting pellet. I want penetration and bloodletting. The best and most effective pellets I use for hunting are pointed pellets.

See this for a comparison at 10,25 and 50 yards for hunting purposes keeping in mind that you need a well placed shot and minimum of 6 FPE at the target for small game such as a squirrel for a humane kill. This is out of a Beeman R-1 which is a "magnum" class airgun.
http://www.straightshooters.com/ourtake/r1grid.html

 

[22MK1]

Dieselnutts,

No I haven't. They do look interesting though. To bad they only come in .177 or .22 as I use a .20(5mm) Crow Magnum IV. BUT I do own a couple of scoped Crosmen Classic 1377's that I keep around for getting rid of pests around the shed and barn, so I have just sent in an order for two tins to see what they will do. Be interesting to see how they will perform on woodpeckers and flickers that keep wanting to nest in my attic, barn and shed. If they work like Nosler Ballistic Tips in centerfire's then these birds should be no problem. Thank you for bringing them to my attention. I'll post here how they work. Lawdog

They don't work anything like Nosler ballistic tips becaue they aren't doing 3,000fps!! Can you say gimmick? Wadcutters out of any but the most powerful PCP airguns will have more expansion than hollowpoints because they will have a lot more energy left by the time they reach the target.

 

[22MK1]

Lawdog. Do you have any experience with these? I am curious as to
how well they work.


http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...belas/en/content/Pod/01/41/90/p014190ii01.jpg

Jamie

To add to my previous reply on these POS gimmick pellets, go read this thread. Who says there isn''t a sucker born every minute, because the topic comes up so often that I was able to find a fresh thread about them this morning?
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/thread?forumid=79537&messageid=1046959940

 

[Lawdog]

22MK1,

They are total garbage. They are just about the most inaccurate pellt made. Unless you are hnting with a very high powered PCP airgun, hollow points are pretty nuch a joke because they loos so much of their energy downrange that they don't expand.

Sorry but you're wrong there. I shoot a Beeman Crow Magnum IV in .20 and the Crwo Magnum pellet expands quite nicely. The pellet I retrieved from the turkey I killed last fall, at a range of 45 yards, had expanded to almost .40". Fireing .177 Crow Magnum pellets out of a Crosman 1377, we're talking under 400 fps., at a wood rat at just over 25 yards was recovered and had expanded to near .25". The wood rat didn't move over a few inches after being hit in the chest. I have done the same thing with Silver Jets and the rats run off. Strightshooters states that they believe that a domed or round point pellet is good for hunting because

round-headed pellets have the highest ballistic coefficients of all the pellet shapes, making them a great choice for pest control and hunting.

actually they act just like a solid in a centerfire cartridge.

They don't work anything like Nosler ballistic tips becaue they aren't doing 3,000fps!!

When I wrote that if they worked like Nosler Ballistic Tips I meant it to mean that maybe they would open up very quickly thus killing birds, such as crows and the like, very quickly. Ballistic Tips and others of their kind don't work at velocities over 2850 very well as they go to pieces if you hit a bone. These bullets do not have a good reputation with the hunting community as in higher velocity cartridges they don’t penetrate. I’d be glade to discuss the merits of polymer tipped bullets with you through PM messages as a discussion like that doesn't belong here.

I have been hunting with pellet rifles since I was a kid(10 years old) and after over 40 years I have come to a few conclusions.

1.) Squirrels are about the hardest of critters to kill quickly and cleanly. Thank god they aren’t carnivorous and weight around 500 pounds. Humans wouldn’t be safe in the woods.

2.) To kill quickly and cleanly you need expansion and penetration.

Sure a hit in the head or like area does the job but I’m talking about body hits only. You wouldn’t hunt deer with solids so why hunt rabbits and the like using a pellet that doesn’t expand. And as far as accuracy goes we, the wife, son and I, have no problem keeping Crow Magnum pellets grouping around a half inch at 50 yards. Hollow point pellets ARE accurate and they do the job. Lawdog
[/quote]

 

[22MK1]

22MK1,

They are total garbage. They are just about the most inaccurate pellt made. Unless you are hnting with a very high powered PCP airgun, hollow points are pretty nuch a joke because they loos so much of their energy downrange that they don't expand.

Sorry but you're wrong there. I shoot a Beeman Crow Magnum IV in .20 and the Crwo Magnum pellet expands quite nicely. The pellet I retrieved from the turkey I killed last fall, at a range of 45 yards, had expanded to almost .40". Fireing .177 Crow Magnum pellets out of a Crosman 1377, we're talking under 400 fps., at a wood rat at just over 25 yards was recovered and had expanded to near .25". The wood rat didn't move over a few inches after being hit in the chest. I have done the same thing with Silver Jets and the rats run off. Strightshooters states that they believe that a domed or round point pellet is good for hunting because

round-headed pellets have the highest ballistic coefficients of all the pellet shapes, making them a great choice for pest control and hunting.

actually they act just like a solid in a centerfire cartridge.

They don't work anything like Nosler ballistic tips becaue they aren't doing 3,000fps!!

When I wrote that if they worked like Nosler Ballistic Tips I meant it to mean that maybe they would open up very quickly thus killing birds, such as crows and the like, very quickly. Ballistic Tips and others of their kind don't work at velocities over 2850 very well as they go to pieces if you hit a bone. These bullets do not have a good reputation with the hunting community as in higher velocity cartridges they don’t penetrate. I’d be glade to discuss the merits of polymer tipped bullets with you through PM messages as a discussion like that doesn't belong here.

I have been hunting with pellet rifles since I was a kid(10 years old) and after over 40 years I have come to a few conclusions.

1.) Squirrels are about the hardest of critters to kill quickly and cleanly. Thank god they aren’t carnivorous and weight around 500 pounds. Humans wouldn’t be safe in the woods.

2.) To kill quickly and cleanly you need expansion and penetration.

Sure a hit in the head or like area does the job but I’m talking about body hits only. You wouldn’t hunt deer with solids so why hunt rabbits and the like using a pellet that doesn’t expand. And as far as accuracy goes we, the wife, son and I, have no problem keeping Crow Magnum pellets grouping around a half inch at 50 yards. Hollow point pellets ARE accurate and they do the job.

Using the data from StraightShooters, a .177 Crow Mag weighs 8.8Gr and taking a velocity of 400FPS and punching it into the energy calculator at
http://www.airguns.net/calculators.html
it comes out to 3.12FPE at the barrel. With it's ballistic coefficient, that doesn't leave much left at 25 yards but I couldn't find a rifle on SS's site that only does 400 FPS in .177 to get a figure.

 

[Lawdog]

22MK1,

A velocity of 400 fps, is easily done with pump up air rifles like the Crosman 760 and their pistols like the 1377. You just have to play around with the number of pumps it takes to get what you want. Out of one of my Crosman 1377's I have found that 400 takes about 7 to 8 pumps to achieve this goal. I use my 1377's for mainly a handily pest control weapon. I keep one in my barn and another in my shed. For hunting I use a Crow Magnum in .20 as I've said but I am looking into purchasing a .22 or even a .25 caliber for the added knock down power. Lawdog

 

[Larry Gibson]

My thoughts on hunting with air rifles

Lawdog and 22MK1

I got my first "kill" with a Benjiman .22 pump when I was 5 years old (1952). It was a gopher I had trapped under a 5 gal bucket. Range was maybe 6 inches and I had her pumped about as many times as I could. Pellet was the standard RN that came in the tins. One shot one kill, I was thrilled.

Since then (49 years) I've gone through BB guns but didn't start seriously hunting with an air rifle until a friend (distributer) came up with two "demos", FWB 124s when I lived in NE Oregon back in '75. One was in .17 and the other in .22. We had permission to shoot the 'picket pins" (Columbian ground squirrels) around the local airport. Tried most every pellet that Beeman offered. Found that hunting accuracy with WCs and HPs was limited to 25 yards and under. With silverjets and RNs 35 yards was max. Head shots with any of them from either rifle were most often effective if a solid hit. With a grazing hit the .22 had the advantage of a longer "knockout time" before they started doing the chicken or recovered to scurrey down their hole. This increased "knock out" time usually allowed a second shot with the .22, not so with the .17.

On heart/lung shots the .22 had a decided advantage with all pellets. It also was the most effective on jackrabbits. Had the chance to buy the .22 FWB 124 but didn't. Still kicking myself.

Picked up a Webley .17 Hawk and have used it for close range use on mice, under 20 yards or in the garage. WCs work the best as velocity runs right at 600 fps. It works ok on Starlings out to 20 yards with WC or Crow Mags but with domed (RN) or Silver jets it sucks. It is awesome on Yellow Jackets around camp.

For several years now I have been using a .20 cal R9. Accuracy with WCs, Crow Mags or HPs pretty much limits it to 30-35 yards. It has the power to kill large rats and squirrels effectively with either headshots or heart/lung shots. Expansion is minimal past 25 yards. However, with Crosman Premiers (domed or RN) it is accurate enough at 45 yards to be effective. I have not noticed any difference in killing power between the CPs and the other pellets. Exception here are birds. They are not wrapped too tight and the WCs are most effective on them. I believe the caliber and retained velocity are evening things out on rats, squirrels and rabbits. A friend has a M48 .17 and the R9 .20 is more effective on game regardless of the pellet used. However, the same friend has now gotten a .20 cal M48 and it is quite effective.

My favorite air rifle for hunting is my RWS M54 .22 cal. However, accuracy with WCs goes south past 30 yards, with Crow mags past 40 yards but with CPs it will shoot 1 inch 5 shot groups at 80 yards. A Crow Magnum .22 cal rifle (I have played with a couple) has about 100 fps advantage on the M54 but the accuracy of the M54 more than makes up for it. Have killed crows and rabbits in the 75-85 yard range with astonishing success. I prefer the RWS HPs or the Crow Mag pellets for heart/lung shots. The velocity of the M54 ensures adequate expansion out to 40 yards with either and they do kill better than the CPs though I can't complain about the effectiveness of the CPs. The others just "thump" harder. However with crows (seems someone has issued them kevlar vests) penetraion is essential at distance. Love the WCs for starlings, miserable little bastards that they are.

I'm not much for scuba guns. I like the convenience of just grabbing a springer (I leave the R9 behind the seat of the PU) and a tin of pellets and shooting whenever the opportunity arrises. Scuba guns take to much prior planning and if I wanted that power level I'd use my .22 Hornet or Savage 25-20 with cast bullets at 1100 fps.

For the last couple years a neighbor has been using a Sheridan .20 for shooting starlings in his yard. He always oohed and awed over my R9. I saw yesterday, when he brouhgt it over to show me, he has an R9 .20 cal and a big smile on his face. Now he is oohgling over the Simons 4X I have on mine. He had some Crow Mags so I helped him zero the iron sights at 20 yards which is the max distance for a shot in his yard. Once he learned how to properly hold a springer when shooting he did real well with it. He said he'll keep the Sheridan for mice in the garage but the R9 is the best fun he's had shooting and look out starlings. I think he's hooked.

Anyway just some of my thoughts and experiences with different pellets used for hunting. Don't claim what I use is the best but it's what I found works for me.

Larry Gibson

 

[Lawdog]

Dieselnutts,

Got my order of Predator Polymer Tip Hollow Head Hunting Pellets from Cabela's but the weather hasn't been real great for any hunting. Set up some targets in my barn and using my scoped Crosman 1377 at ranges of 30, 60 and 75 feet accuracy isn't anything to write home about. Best group at 30 feet was .703", 60 feet was 1.04" and 75 feet was 1.865". In my daughter's Gamo 880 accuracy was some what better but still not what I would call anywhere near target quality. Shot at 60 and 75 feet best groups were .620" and .994". Penetration in soft pine boards were about half of what I get with Crow Magnums but they did seem to really expand. As soon as I get a rat or bird I'll post how they do on a critter. Lawdog

 

[Del]

Daisy Pellets...........

Looks like Daisy has stopped making .22 caliber pellets!?

1)When did Daisy stop making .22 cal. pellets?
2)Opinions of Daisy pellets, specifically the "Quick Silver" superior match grade target style pellets??
3)Do you know the weight of the above pellets?

Just curious, I picked up a 250 pack at a local hardware store to try in my new Crosman 1322 pump pistol. If they shoot accurately from my pistol I may pick up some more.

Any information would be great, Thank you!
Del

 

[feyxla]

I hear alot here about Power, Expansion, Pellet shape.
these are minor factors in what you really need.
What you need, is to place a hunk of lead in a targets vital zone.
to do this you need a rifle that shoots true to the sight or scope.
you need to know your targets requirements at said range (power)
you need a pellet that best suits your rifle and not your prey.
By this I mean......

Is your scope true? have you zeroed at a known distance with your chosen pellets at a set power? and know your range offsets?

Does your target need a head shot or vitals shot, If at max range you may only have a head shot as an option.

Have you tried a selection of pellets and found the best grouping brand for your rifle? some rifles, same brand/model/cal ect can like totaly different pellets.

The whole point is to be confident at placing a head shot 100% at any given range, if your groups at 30 yards are over 1 inch then somthing somewhere is wrong with your combo of barrel and pellets.

 

[AlphaSpud]

You gotta try these!

I don't have a chronometer...but these things FLY!

I did a crude test with this pellet vs. Beeman silver jets...

This pellet penetrated the side of a #10 can, the Beeman only dented it.

http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/pellet.pl?pellet_id=145

 

[echochap]

Pellet selection

I read this article some time ago then went out bought the supplies, and repeated the test using my favorite hunting pellets. Pointed pellets do not expand, and unless you hit a vital organ just so, will not give a clean kill. Both the hollowpoint and wadcutters gave good expansion with fair penetration. And round nose gave good penetration with fair expansion. The type of game you are hunting, the power of your gun, caliber selected, the distances you'll be shooting all come into play when selecting a pellet for field work. I like to use round nose pellets because they tend to be heavier and retain down range power with good effective penetration and expansion when hunting nutria, woodchucks, jackrabbits or ground squirrels. I use hollowpoints when hunting pigeons, starlings, or tree squirrels. Lawdog, I think you are spot on when you talk about the need for expansion, it is the hydrostatic shock that leads to quick kills, not pass through penetration.

 

[Lawdog]

Skenco Pellets??

AlphaSpud,

Skenco pellets weight only 5.9 gr. where the Silver Jet weights almost 3 grains more at 8.7 gr. so the Skenco would travel faster but at longer ranges it will loose velocity faster due to it's lighter weight. Also for hunting use at hunting ranges they would not penetrate as well due to the loss of velocity. While I haven't tried the Skenco pellet I have tried other "sabot" type pellets that at close range they're screamers but at 40 yards they turn into powder puffs. Also found that the accuracy of these type pellets was not anything to brag about. As "echochap" stated for hunting use you want a pellet that expands or on body shots you can't depend on quick clean kills consistently. Lawdog

 

[Jim n Iowa]

win 1000

Lawdog
Two more co-workers ordered the win/1000 the price has dropped again. I stopped bugs at three car links, I could hear the impact. Could not see the whole rabbit. I have yet to put it on paper no need in my back yard.
Jim