This is just my opinon folks but I feel until the state does something about the predator problem in WI we will continue to have low populations of grouse and rabbits. Now I do not know about down south but up north here rabbits have been down for years. Oh there are some cotton tails but mostly where you cannot hunt them in the towns and citys ect. Snowshoe hares are almost nonexistant. Yea a pocket of them here and there but not even close to what they used to be cycle or no cycle they just are not there. Same with the grouse even on a high cycle the birds are not like they used to be. This year they should be on a upswing and are not. Not hard to figure when there were thousands of owls here this winter. :x Mix in the Wolves and Yotes and fox and Fishers ect ect along with all the owls, hawks and eagles we have in the state it is a real problem.
Predators
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Yeah, predators. Part of the animal kingdom dynamics, I know, but dang them wolves, if those sun of a guns keep eating the elk, it will be longer yet till we get the hunt. Of course the bears are to blame also.
I really wish they would never have brought wolves back to the state. Huge waste of money trying to manage them when they get to the point where they doing mega harm to livestock as well as others. Not to mention all the federal government involvement.
I feel that the antis love seeing the wolves prosper. Wisconsin or any state for that matter. Wolves kill alot (not all) of the tablefare we all treasure. The antis also know that when it comes to addressing the wolf populations (killin em) that the general public is easily swayed as wolves look so much like the family pet. They are so pretty...BANG !!
On the bright side, we have more deer that you can shake a stick at. :grin:
I really wish they would never have brought wolves back to the state. Huge waste of money trying to manage them when they get to the point where they doing mega harm to livestock as well as others. Not to mention all the federal government involvement.
I feel that the antis love seeing the wolves prosper. Wisconsin or any state for that matter. Wolves kill alot (not all) of the tablefare we all treasure. The antis also know that when it comes to addressing the wolf populations (killin em) that the general public is easily swayed as wolves look so much like the family pet. They are so pretty...BANG !!
On the bright side, we have more deer that you can shake a stick at. :grin:
i dont think the eagles or hawks threaten the small game so much. i think it is more the fox, coyote, wolves, and especially the fishers that really impact them. i cant remember the last time i went hunting and didnt see a fisher. i have even had two come after me. one stopped about 30 feet out, the other made it to ten feet before he thought better of it. good thing for him, i had a contender with a 35 remington pointed right at him. one more step my way and it would have been ugly.
Yea giving us the fisher back was really a stupid idea. But listen to this for a min and then tell me what you think. When I was young back in the early 60's and up to 1970 when I graduated there were lots of snowshoe rabbits where I hunted and grouse too. Even on the bottom of their cycle for either the rabbits or the grouse you could find some with out too much of a problem. Nowdays the rabbits are really few and far between exept for maybe a pocket of them here and there and same with the grouse. Now I did not get out that much last year but for what I did I got one grouse the opening day of deer season as I always carry a shot gun with me in the truck. What changed between now with few rabbits and birds and back when I was a kid and there were lots of rabbits and birds even on the low end of the cycle they both have that run supposidly in 10 year cycles. Well back then they sprayed DDT a lot at least in Northern WI as the Paper companies that raise pine trees for pulp wood own a lot of land in Northern WI. Expecially in Douglas Co. where I live and other northern Co's as well. Well with all that DDT spraying you never seen a Eagle they were about wiped out and so were hawks and owls compared to now you hardly ever saw one. Well they outlawed the DDT and the birds of prey came back and the rabbits and birds count stays low now I agree with you the fisher does not help matters and may be just as big of a cause but I think they both work side by side on this along with the other predators. No I am not advocating using DDT again that would be foolish but just showing the difference of when they used it and now. So that is one reason I think the rabbits and birds are at a all time low and I know the DNR would probably dispute this expecially about the fishers since it was their stupid idea in the first place. :x Got to say we had lots of coyotes back then and some fox and no wolves. Plus we had a lot more folks trapping back then to take care of the fur bearing predators so I really think it is the birds of prey and the fishers that are doing it. Jim
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I'm less worried about the predators doing their part in nature's cycle (read about the Kaibab Preserve in the early 20th century) than I am about uncontrolled suburban sprawl.
Perhaps sub/urban sprawl and the predator population go hand in hand. Increased food supply for small game, such as garden plots and flower beds and young shrubbery etc. Not to mention bird feeders that also attract squirrels and to some extent deer. Young fresh lawns with plenty of grubs to attract skunks. We are all familiar with racoons raiding the garbage cans... Hmmm, seems like a predators paradise, with all this easy food. This isn't even touching on the family pets such as small dogs and cats that are left to roam as they wish. (This statement is not meant to incite discussion on the feral cat issue) There are some sub/urban people that raise rabbits and pigeons for a hobby, more easy food for the predators.
With the above examples, is there any question why the predators are increasing in number?
Couple this with the fact that predator hunting isn't as glamorous as deer hunting nor is it as socially acceptable in today's PC world. Sure, in some parts of the country predator hunting is a way of life, here in Wisconsin, not so much.
These are my observations and opinions. Discussion is welcome.
By the way. I've been calling predators on a few occasions and come up empty. I blame this on lack of skill and hunting savy not the lack of coyotes or fox.
Oh yeah, with sub/urban sprawl comes removal of normal habitat for ALL wild critters, not just pedators or the species they prey on. That is an important factor in the above statements.
Nixter
Ps. no fishers or wolves in the SouthEast part of the state that I know of but plenty of hawks, owls and coyotes.
With the above examples, is there any question why the predators are increasing in number?
Couple this with the fact that predator hunting isn't as glamorous as deer hunting nor is it as socially acceptable in today's PC world. Sure, in some parts of the country predator hunting is a way of life, here in Wisconsin, not so much.
These are my observations and opinions. Discussion is welcome.
By the way. I've been calling predators on a few occasions and come up empty. I blame this on lack of skill and hunting savy not the lack of coyotes or fox.
Oh yeah, with sub/urban sprawl comes removal of normal habitat for ALL wild critters, not just pedators or the species they prey on. That is an important factor in the above statements.
Nixter
Ps. no fishers or wolves in the SouthEast part of the state that I know of but plenty of hawks, owls and coyotes.
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Gotta agree with that. I keep wondering how the wolf population will be handled years down the road when they really become bothersome and detrimental to other critters.
I personaly love the way the state of Alaska handles them in certain GMUs. They shoot them from a plane. Job done.
I am not for the extinction of wolves by any stretch, but when they need to be culled, the job should get done fast and swift. Biology, not politics.
I personaly love the way the state of Alaska handles them in certain GMUs. They shoot them from a plane. Job done.
I am not for the extinction of wolves by any stretch, but when they need to be culled, the job should get done fast and swift. Biology, not politics.
I know this is sort of an old post. The DNR could easily increase the amount of tags they hand out on predators. Trappers only get one fisher tag. Bobcats have a three year wait and it's multiple years for bears also. If they started giving out wolf tags there would be plenty of takers. Hawks and owles are doing fine, they have been protected for 40 years. Does the public know if they're endangered any more? Do we really need to protect coyotes during gun deer season?Local Sunday Paper ( Duluth MN) in the Outdoors section had a article saying that they feel the grouse will never hit the numbers of the heydays of the 50's and early 70's. They interviewed a game manager from the MN and the WI DNR. Both said that habitat is not as good as it used to be expecially aspen management. They also did say that preditors had a inpact which I have been saying all along INCLUDING HAWKS AND OWLS! Said leaving some big aspen in a harvested area is bad as it gives the owls and hawks a place to perch and look over the young aspen. So at least they are aware that preditation is a problem. Doing something about it is a other issue. :x
over predation along with urban sprawl etc i would guess are two problems compounding each other. ive always been of the belief that the original natural balance of old will never be able to return because of the loss of habitat in most areas. with the decrease of habitat you will see once small impacts due to cyclical predation turn into bigger and bigger impacts.
so what does one do?....attempt to manage predators?...or just erradicate them?
who knows.
im glad my area is still ok with good bird qtys so far.
so what does one do?....attempt to manage predators?...or just erradicate them?
who knows.
im glad my area is still ok with good bird qtys so far.
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It's now 4-5 years to draw a cat tag.And the coyote population is taking a toll on smallgame,even though the fisher gets the blame for alot of it.I dont understand why coyotes are protected 24 days of the year when most people in the woods carry firearms.You have a 9 day gun deer,9 day muzzle loader and two 4 day T-zones that coyotes cant be shot,just because we have wolves.As far as wolves go in WI,it's like putting a square peg in a round hole,sure they may have been here a 100 years ago,but things change,like development which is the opposite of wolf habitat,but is beneficial to coyote habitat,that's why the coyote thrives here.If the wolf could adapt to these changes they wouldnt have needed to be re-introduced,WI is not true wolf habitat anymore,but there here because of wishful thinking by some.I both trap and hunt coyotes and can tell you there population has really took a jump since all these firearm deer season have come about that prohibits the shooting of coyotes.I think this state needs to start getting back to good management practices,instead of PC practices.
Yep this Feel good I love wolves BS is just that BS! As far as I am concerned they should be eradicated! Bounties should be put back on Coyotes and Fox too. A little descrete raptor control would not be all that bad either. 8) 8) 8)
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