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Discussion Starter #1
hey what gun do you use for an elephant maybe a .416? what about hippo? leapords? what about nile crocodiles ? what about calibers for those animals? where do you shoot an elephant or the above animals?
can you show me some pics. on your elephant kills and hippo kills well ttyl'

Craig
 

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Most game on earth can be easily killed with the simple hunting calibers everyone uses like the 30/06, 300 magnum, or 338 etc. The question is always, will you find them after you shoot them?

Some countries have minimum bore diameter or energy requirements for the big five or six including hippo.

To list every countries rules and regs on firearms on a site like this is not realistic. So to cut to the chase all the countries that have minimums start at the .375 diameter for the bigger more dangerous animals.

Certainly a 416 with a 400 grain solid will do the job on anything alive, so will a 300 grain bullet from the 375HH. You must remember there is a big difference between the rifle a recreational sport hunter uses and the rifle a Professional Hunter uses. With a single accurate well placed shot from a 375HH and a 300 grain bullet I have seen elephants fold right where they stood. I have seen and done this many times to Cape buffalo as well.

I really don't see a need for a recreational sport hunter to use anything bigger then a 375HH or a 416. The advantage to the 375HH is very low recoil and that additiional ammo is available everyplace. The 416 cartridges comes in too many types. The likelyhood of finding the cartridges your rifle is chambered for while in the bush is less likely.

The PH has the responsibility to insure everything comes both successfully and safely to an end. You will be required in every country to have a PH with you while hunting. My rifle for this work is a 458 Lott shooting 450 grain barnes X bullets at 2300 fps. I have never recovered a bullet from this rifle. Every one has exited after extensive internal damage. I have shot length wise through plenty of game as well. It's not a hunting rifle and carries only fixed(non-adjustable) machined solid steel peepsights. It cannot get banged out of "zero" with this setup. I don't hunt with it, it's strictly my work rifle for insurance purposes. When I'm hunting in Africa I use a 375HH with Swift Aframe bullets. That combination has never failed to decide matters on hundreds of big to VERY big animals.

Where to shoot them also has the potential for a very long thread with plenty of pictures. I would suggest the book "The Perfect shot" by Kevin Robertson, he is a South African PH and a Veterinarian. His book shows you all the details on every species in Africa. It's the difinitive book on the topic. The Bible of African game shot placement. I highly recommend it to anyone heading off to hunt in Africa.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
hey

thanks jjhack I appreciate it


Craig
 

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In my personal opinion that's not even close. The 470 Nitro Express is the base line for dangerous game. It shoots a 500 grain bullet at 2100 fps. That was what Winchester was trying to recreate with the 458 win mag.

The 458 win mag had a horrible reputation when it came out due to marginal performance. Seems the old 458 was not getting the claimed 2050fps but only 1900fps. If the 510 grain Win Mag bullet at 1900fps was getting a bad reputaion then nothing less then the standard 500 gains at 2100 should be the line in the sand.

The object here is not killing an animal. These are not deer, antelope, or sheep. The object is crumpling them where they stand. That's a tall order for any gun much less the very low powered 45/70. Certainly Buffalo have been killed with handguns and archery so a 45/70 can clearly kill a Buffalo. However it's a "stunt" to hunt these animals with those primitive weapons.

A buffalo hunt will cost from 7500.00 -8000.00 bucks and up. If the shot is not right the PH will finish the job. I can't imagine going to Africa and spending that kind of money only to risk the PH actually killing your bull because of the weapon choice. I use a 458 Lott shooting 450 grain Barnes X bullets at 2300fps for my work/backup rifle. I had this rifle built based entirely on the 470 nitro Express minimum standard.

Sure a 45/70 will kill a Buffalo, but it will not likely crumple one.
 

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JJHACK,
I once watched a very small native african sneak up close to a bull elephant and shoot him right side brain with a lowly Chinese SKS carbine. Boom, puff of dust off the side of head, bigger puff of dust when said bull hit ground, stone dead. Stunt, yeah. I'm sure many others died trying the same, but if that is all you have, shoot straight!

On an african hunt for plains game, some of which weighed in the 2000lbs range, the ph was amazed at the success of razor sharp broadheads and the relatively short distances the game travelled when double lung shot.

In the hands of a competent archer, the bow rivals or exceeds the effectiveness of any firearm. It just does not kill by shock, though!

Stay calm and shoot straight!
 

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Leroy, I was an archer exclusively for the first half of my big game hunting career. I know about Sharp broad heads! No argument at all on using them or CNS hits with bullets. But 1500-1600 fps with a 400 grain bullet into the muscle mass of a Buffalo and the heavy bone structure is not gonna cut it.

I have a personal friend who is the world leader in 45/70 Ammo. Randy Garrett of GArret cartridges. His ammo is the choice in a 45/70 if your going to try this hunt. I believe his best is the hammerhead which is a 540 grain bullet at the same velocity as the 400 grain bullet posted in the original question. With that load and a long barrel 45/70 I think you would have a much better chance. I know his ammo has taken all the big six with the 45/70 by one guy on one safari. So it works with patience and good shooting.
 

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15-1600fps=400gr

JJ----
I agree, the load mentioned would be just that, if it worked, a stunt, just like the little african. But it WAS all he had!

We OWE it to the game and the image of a hunter to take game as cleanly as possible and leave less fuel to the fires of the antis.

Good talking with you!
 
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