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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Made a new friend who is a Dan Wesson junkie. Dave shot competition many years ago with a T C in 445 super mag. He gave me his load book for his 445 super mag. It is impressive both in details and notes. Most of the powers he used are not in any of the load data I have found for the 445 . I started at the bottom on a load that I had the powder on hand. I Loaded up 3 and grab my H&R and the chronograph. First shot kicked like a mule and I though over presser opened the gun case slide right out, primer looked good no signs of over presser. looked at the chronograph 2483 fps with a 240 grain xtp. I went and got a known load and shot it chronographed right were it should have. For the people that use Quick load or others programs do you trust them on the data you get back and please say what program you are using. I haven't shot the other two rounds yet. I love my H&R 445 and don't want to hurt the gun or me. Dave spent many years working with the 445 and I find his loads to be very interesting but i want to be safe. Thanks Matt
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Ok went and barrowed a second chronograph and lined them up front to back with mine first in line. I shot 10 feet from them.

shot 1
c 1 2454 fps
c 2 2437 fps

shot 2
c1 2461
c2 2453

Both cases extracted with no problems primers looked good. My chronograph may read a little high but the numbers are closes for what I do
I seem to remember a place you could send rounds to be presser checked for a price. Does anyone know or remember where I might get this done.
 

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littledog said:
Ok went and barrowed a second chronograph and lined them up front to back with mine first in line. I shot 10 feet from them.

shot 1
c 1 2454 fps
c 2 2437 fps

shot 2
c1 2461
c2 2453

Both cases extracted with no problems primers looked good. My chronograph may read a little high but the numbers are closes for what I do
I seem to remember a place you could send rounds to be presser checked for a price. Does anyone know or remember where I might get this done.
Just curious what length barrel are you using with the T/C?...

Care to list the load that is getting 2400+ fps? I can't even imagine that velocity, even from a 23" carbine barrel. I am uncertain that a 444 Marlin would produce those velocities!!!...

Thanks...BCB
 

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I've been wanting the Quickload program for a few years just been too much of a tightwad to spend the money for it. I keep thinking somebody else will come up with a cheaper equivalent.
 

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I got the QL program when primers and powder were a little harder to find as a way to help narrow down loads. I refer to them as QL guesstimates as they don't and can't take into account every variable. For that reason I will still work up loads. Working up higher pressure loads for a rimless 357max it was interesting to see what pressure changes seating depth made and at what point the powders would become peaky. Recently I chambered a mauser in a 44x1.8" wildcat for use in the MI shotgun zone. I trusted the QL guestimate to help figure out a starting load and round about where to stop to keep the pressures low for a 122 year old action. It's neat to be able to change powders and charge weights with just a few clicks to see what powders will be the best choice for what you're trying to achieve. Most of the time for me at least it's accuracy first then velocity. Which load your gun likes best is something you can only get from sending lead down range.
 

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Quickload is one of those programs I liked and used enough to buy it! Alas though it does have shortcomings with some combinations. Like everything else in reloading it's a must to error on the side of caution and start low! One thing Quikload is relatively good at is to at least group the most efficent powders in a combination, seems to be pretty reliable on overall powderburn.
 

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The original poster asked if QuickLoad can be trusted…

Maybe, but I am still waiting for the data the OP used to get the velocity from his Handi with a 445 SM and a 240 grain bullet…

I plugged the data into QuickLoad and it indicated that velocity is impossible to achieve with the 445 SM without creating pressures that are nearly double SAAMI…

I worked backwards and asked it to get me 2400 fps. It gave me powders and charges that should do it, but they were much over actual case capacity of the 445 SM, or the pressures were insane. It gave the warning that the loads were dangerous—Do Not Use…

I am still waiting for the OP to post the powder and charge that will get 2400+fps from a 445 SM, a 240 grain bullet, and a Handi rifle—I’m assuming a barrel less than 24” in length…

He writes: “I went and got a known load and shot it chronographed right were it should have”. How does he know where it should have? And, what was that load he tried? Something is a bit wrong here. If it’s a “known” load and in manuals, why is there concern about trusting QuickLoad?...

Then, we can answer the question: “Do you trust QuickLoad”?...

Good-luck…BCB
 

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BCB said:
I plugged the data into QuickLoad and it indicated that velocity is impossible to achieve with the 445 SM without creating pressures that are nearly double SAAMI…
There is no SAAMI spec for the 445, so you're kinda on your own as far as top loads. I've been comfortable working up loads using Quickload for about 10yrs, but it takes some time, usually starting at a known published load and working up in ½gr increments beyond the published data and pressure. For traditional firearms for which the SAAMI spec is low pressure like the 38-55, I've done pretty well going into 375 Win territory, this of course in a rifle made for those pressures, in my case an H&R SB2 Handirifle, I'd have no problems loading for the 445 to 60kpsi in a Handi, it is after all factory chambering in 270 Win and several other high pressure chamberings with bigger case heads than the 445. A 100% load density charge of Lil under the 240gr XTP will get you 2400fps at less than 60kpsi which would work for me, but I'd work up from published data, unfortunately there isn't a lot for the 445. I don't know how long the brass would last at 60kpsi, but for a hunting rifle that's not really an issue for me. 2400fps is beyond the working velocity for the 240gr XTP, Hornady lists the max muzzle velocity as 2200fps, so it wouldn't be my first choice for a big game bullet, the Hornady 265gr FP would be tho.

Tim

http://saami.org/specifications_and_information/index.cfm
 

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quickdtoo said:
BCB said:
I plugged the data into QuickLoad and it indicated that velocity is impossible to achieve with the 445 SM without creating pressures that are nearly double SAAMI…
There is no SAAMI spec for the 445, so you're kinda on your own as far as top loads. I've been comfortable working up loads using Quickload for about 10yrs, but it takes some time, usually starting at a known published load and working up in ½gr increments beyond the published data and pressure. For traditional firearms for which the SAAMI spec is low pressure like the 38-55, I've done pretty well going into 375 Win territory, this of course in a rifle made for those pressures, in my case an H&R SB2 Handirifle, I'd have no problems loading for the 445 to 60kpsi in a Handi, it is after all factory chambering in 270 Win and several other high pressure chamberings with bigger case heads than the 445. A 100% load density charge of Lil under the 240gr XTP will get you 2400fps at less than 60kpsi which would work for me, but I'd work up from published data, unfortunately there isn't a lot for the 445. I don't know how long the brass would last at 60kpsi, but for a hunting rifle that's not really an issue for me. 2400fps is beyond the working velocity for the 240gr XTP, Hornady lists the max muzzle velocity as 2200fps, so it wouldn't be my first choice for a big game bullet, the Hornady 265gr FP would be tho.

Tim

http://saami.org/specifications_and_information/index.cfm
More power to ya!!!...

You're on your own with an H&R and those pressures...

A 100% load density of Lil'Gun is showing nearly 57000 psi and only 2300+ fps. Still it might be over 2400 fps...

I would call that flurting on the edge especially with an H&R...

A dang site faster than that cartridge was ever intended to do...

Good-luck...BCB
 

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Increase seating depth to .250", you'll get 59.5kpsi and 2419fps from the 22" barrel, the reamer Matt used cuts a nice throat which allows a bit deeper seating, I loaded the 265 FTX in my 445 Handi to 2.242" COL, reamed with the same reamer. There's another variable that most shooters don't know, the SAAMI bore spec for the 44 mag rifle( which is the original chambering of Matt's rifle) is bigger than the 44 mag pistol, not the .429" pistol groove diameter, but more like .431"ish which is going to reduce pressure some, velocity too as well I suspect.

Since the 270 Win has a SAAMI MAP of 65kpsi with .470" case head and 500S&W at 60kpsi with .525" case head, both factory chamberings in H&R Handirifles, then a 60kpsi 445 Supermag load should work just fine as well.

As for the pop-open issue, that can be caused by issues other than just over pressure, poor fit and/or oil on the latch/shelf would be at the top of the list on a rifle that has previously worked fine. I have Handis in 35 Whelen Improved 376 Steyr, 280 Rem Improved, 270 Ackley, 30-06, 500S&W, 499HE, 460S&W, 50-140 and a bunch more, I have no problems loading them to their full potential with good handloading practices, start low and work up. ;)

Tim

http://saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/44 Remington Magnum.pdf
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I got a chance to talk to Dave about the load I was shooting. Dave was loading and shooting the 445 super mag long before I loaded my first round. Yes this is avery hot load and no I wont tell what powder and I wont be loading this load again. Dave pointed me to loads that were more suited for my H&R . I load and shoot for fun not for competition. Thanks for the replies on quick load Matt.
 

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littledog said:
I got a chance to talk to Dave about the load I was shooting. Dave was loading and shooting the 445 super mag long before I loaded my first round. Yes this is avery hot load and no I wont tell what powder and I wont be loading this load again. Dave pointed me to loads that were more suited for my H&R . I load and shoot for fun not for competition. Thanks for the replies on quick load Matt.
A wise decision...

Good-luck...BCB
 
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