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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There is a Win M70 Special in 405Win on Guns America.It is 1 of only 2 made.It was factory made only one year 1936,with a 25in heavy barrel.It is $19,000.00.Good Luck!!!
 

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This is a response on the model 70 in 405 Winchester. I have seen the gun at two shows and talked to the owner. He has a lot of genuine high quality rifles, especially winchesters. However he has no proof, no letter, no verifiable documents that in fact, Winchester made a model 70 in 405 and that his is one of them. For almost $20,000 I would want a lot more.

Teddy R's adventures with the model 95 405 are well known. A number of his firearms are on display at his home at Sagamore Hill now run by the Nat. Park Service. They are sweet indeed. But, if anyone can cite any reports, photos or reviews of a bolt action in 405 used by Roosevelt, I would like to know what they are. His bolt action was an 03 Springfield customized by the Springfield Arsenal. This would be new and interesting if true. Naturally, it could not have been made by Winchester which made no bolt actions until the model 54. A rimmed cartridge like the 405 would have been difficult to adapt to any bolt action except the Krag. In fact, if you are short on brass for your 405 you can make them by simply necking up a 30-40 Krag case. They are a tad short but work OK.
 

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My post on Teddy's 405 was about his 1895 levergun. The heading for the thread was the rarest 405, I think his is pretty rare, in that he owned it and would definitely fetch more than $19,000.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
405Win

Mickey,i don't believe I said or they said that the rifle belonged to Teddy.I just stated as did they that it was 1 of only 2 made and is a factory chambering by Winchester.Whether it has anything to do with Teddy they never said.
The one M1895 owned by Teddy would probably be worth more.But there were thousands and thousands of them made in the 35years of the M1895.This was made only one year 1936.Thats rare!
I don't know if its a real factory Winchester,but i certainly believe it could be.I use to collect Win M70s and have found many factory chamberings that were not listed in any books.I only know what they said about it and its a 405Win.
I certainly would and could find out more about it before I spent $19,000.00 for it.But I would give $6,000.00 for it right now with out any of those facts!!!

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You are right, there are all kinds of model 70's out there that are not listed in books. Authentic or not, that model 70 405 was one very fine finished rifle, just as good as any pre war deluxe model 70's I ever saw. I could not afford anything like it, but it would warm the cockles of my heart to own it.

As for TR's Winchester model 95 405 I can only imagine its value. The double rifle he used on his first African Safari was stolen a couple of years ago, but I believe now recovered. It was valued by the National Park Service at over $300,000. If you ever visit Ford's Theater in Wash. DC they have on display there the derringer used by John Wilkes Booth to kill A. Lincoln. That was valued at $500,000. The values are informal and assigned by the shop where such firearms are "stabilized" as they call it, never restored. The shop is located in Harpers Ferry, Virginia. A lot of people dont know that the Nat. Park Service has custody of some of the most valuable historic firearms in the county.

Sometimes they dont even know what they have. At a small remote park in Northern Ca. I came across, in the park gun locker, three Garands, serial nos 575, 576, and 577 in nearly perfect, perhaps even unfired condition. but thats another story. Many park service firearms were surplus from other agencies like the post office or coast guard issued to parks during the WW2 era and later, in many cases dutifully cared for but never used. Most rangers were not gun nuts but wildlife hobbyists. I have seen unfired colt commando revolvers, Singer 45 autos with consecutive serial numbers, ( they were green parkerized) five of them unfired in a gun locker in Death Valley. Been there almost 40 years when I found them in 1979. I could make you weep.
 

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Mr Rule, in his book on the m70 (The Rifleman's Rifle), page 264, documents that Winchester did produce Special non-standard chambering(s) in .405 Winchester. So at least 1 does exist... 8)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Win m70

talon said:
Mr Rule, in his book on the m70 (The Rifleman's Rifle), page 264, documents that Winchester did produce Special non-standard chambering(s) in .405 Winchester. So at least 1 does exist... 8)

Thank you.I felt certain is was the real thing anyway.Having collected WinM70 for many years.In such rare calibers as:

7x57 Mauser
358Win
284Win
264Win Mag
9x57 Mauser
7.65 Argentine
250/3000 Savage
300 Savage


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Mickey wrote-
A rimmed cartridge like the 405 would have been difficult to adapt to any bolt action except the Krag.

I would like to point out the various 54's and 70's chambered in 30 WCF(30-30), 22 Hornet, 220 Swift(semi rimmed), 30-40, and the various belted mags which are as difficult to get to feed as a rimmed round. Any bolt can be made to feed a rimmed round, if you wish to go to the trouble.. They made magazines to feed the round they wished to chamber. Today they make "a' magazine and try to make it feed right, and it's a sometimes thing!!!
 
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