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Discussion Starter #1
I see this debate goes on & on here seemingly without end.....I'm only going to talk about new rifles ....out of the box....production guns...To limit debate, lets just weigh in with Varmint style heavy barrel guns..I'll throw the odd Winchester, Sako & Ruger into the mix just to spice things up..I'm fifty years old...& I just got back into varmint Hunting after a nearly 20 year sabatical...I live in Ct so my oppourtunities to hunt have been cut to near nothing for acreage available to me..I have been driving down to Pa & The fields are as big as I remember..Also landowners still let strangers hunt the fields..That said lets look at some guns in 223 & 22-250 ....Two years ago my buddy from Pa was coming up here to visit & he was to bring his old [1970's vintage Rem 222 varmint with him] rifle..He was telling me how good it used to shoot & what a nice gun it was...Well I started ragging on him about the pip-squeak cartridge he was using & how my old ruger with a crappy trigger in 22-250 would pin his ears back..Ok problem, I sold the old heavy barrel ruger with the crappy trigger cause theres no place left to shoot it here...I go to the gun club & talk to the kid running it these days...He gives me his like new heavy barrel 223 rem varmint with a laminated stock & a nice 4 X 14 scope...factory ammo....This gun could shoot pretty good...at 200 yds it was near dead on a quarter ..not bad..but the trigger was pretty crummy..I go looking to find one in 22-250...everygun store in the area..nothing..not even a new one to be found...Finally I end up at a little place, gunsmith on premise..He talks me into ordering a new rem ADL & a Leupold 6 X 20 scope & fancy detach rings ..A week later I have a gun & I've been loading up some ammo ready to go...First thing the trigger is horrible & the barrel is a sporter weight..not good but Eh I'm stuck with this #...off to the range...It is not going to be my day, this thing is horrible & the barrel won't hold groups as it warms up...in fact, its cold waiting 5 mins between shots performance is worthless also...I keep cleaning the barrel & it is obvious this unit was made on some dull tools...back to the gunsmith..A little trigger tweaking, Check the bedding...added some stiffness to the plastic stock..& back to the range...better but this unit barely shoots to an inch & at two hundred yds forget grouping..can't stay inside a chucks head at 200yds...This is not going to do...I get my backside handed to me by john & his 222 rem varmint..I find Graybeard outdoors & start asking questions...Seems these days with any brand of rifle you pays your money & takes your chances...I see savage gets decent marks from most here & rem fans keep talking....I'm not in the mood to talk..I need a gun that will shoot before august [I'm going to Pa for a re-match & some hunting with John}...I find a used Win model 70 heavy barrel Stealth in 22-250 at a local gun store..I make a deal with this guy.. the gun shoots under an inch with factory ammo or full refund..He listens to my sad story & agrees to my terms...At the range the Winchester can shoot but the trigger defies all attempts to be made smooth & light..I order a timney replacement & it does the trick after some fitting...140 dollars later this gun can shoot...Not out of this world but 5/8 of an inch pretty consistant...One thing I notice right away... The rifiling in this winchester is smooth clean & bright..No noticable fouling after many shots..The 0ne in fourteen twist seems to prefer 50 gr bullets & I like the fifty-five gr ones better..oh well..Again you pays your money & takes your chances...The remington ADL was shipped off to A famous barrel maker to be refitted with a 6 MM Br norma SS barrel...I might have it back by Xmas...This brings me to the savage part of the story..All the trips to the range I'm running into all kinds of guys with every description of guns...From a 223 savage tactical & a nice laminated varmint in 22-250...same guy owned both..To custom made 6 MM benchrest type guns...I got to shoot a few of these..I've since purchased a used 223 Sako 75 heavy barrel laminated SS varmint with a huge tactical scope ...This puppy can shoot to a dime at hundred yds with one brand of factory ammo..It has a custom trigger in it & it is a joy to shoot...lets not say how much $$$$ my wife might see this...I got to play with other 22 caliber guns also I have have good things to say about all the ones I played with that can shoot...That was the catch, not all would shoot,every brand had winners & losers...The bad part is just about every brand of factory gun needed something from a better stock, to trigger or bedding work..it just goes on & on without end....For the Money I don't think you can beat the Savage guns...& here is WHY.. the best part...You can buy a plain jane older savage in blue or SS..They can be found in gun stores with or without the accutrigger..& for short dollars..Replacement stocks & decent triggers are readily available...Those 3 items (old gun ,new trigger & Stock) cost about the same as a new remington BDL laminate Varmint.. lets say You take that savage to the range & it is not everything you had hoped for ...No worry...You can buy a drop in replacement barrel in just about any caliber & twist for half what a famous barrel maker charges to redo a rem or winchester..& NO WAITING !! Time counts to me & waiting a year for a job blows..I want it now !!! If you get a shooter from any of the Above gun makers great..the rub is some of them straight from the factory are not worth the steel they are made from...Replacing a barrel for REM WIN OR RUGER is big money compared to the cost of the gun [550 in my case] after 6 months of aggravation, you will pay the money to get a shooter made of it....I think if you start with a solid savage action put it in the stock that you want & get a good trigger ..Add the barrel you want in caliber & twist you desire..you get a shooter on the cheap..I have also found out you can change the bolt face size in a savage so you can go from 223 to 22-250 as well...This is a near impossibility with other brands..try getting a small face bolt for your short action remington...It can be done, but the cost of a new bolt is about that of a good replacement barrel on the savage..259 vs 20 bucks..Look into building your own semi-custom savage rifle I think you will find the project rewarding & you will be pleased with the gun when you are finished... I did an older SS savage 270 into a 35 Whelen last winter... less than five hundred bucks...I got the caliber I wanted in 1 in 14 twist I prefer for that caliber & the gun can shoot under an inch at 100 yds...You can't really ask for more ...well yes I can ...I should have ordered the timney trigger when they were on sale..But that is a detail I can fix later...Look into a gun you can change barrels on from a custom maker ...HUGE MONEY..worth it ???yes..do most guys need that in a gun?? ..NO..but the plan I outlined here has some merit...you guys look into it & tell me what you think....mike in ct
 

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Your preaching to the choir.......I already have a Savage........and agree, it's hard to find a better rifle for the money. I've bought Rugers for years until the Savage...........I've always got to work on them to get them to shoot.

I hope the other rifle makers take note, as I see it, if they don't give us what we want, then I'll just stay with the Savage.
 

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I agree with "victorcharlie"[/color] on the Savage. Accuracy is what counts. Lawdog
:D
 

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I'm no longer a big fan of Remington or Savage. I think Remington is a victim of its own previous successes. Now they can't live up to it and have went downhill, too much emphasis on the bottom line. When Remington hires more machinists and gunsmiths and fewer lawyers and beancounters I may become interested again, but don't bet on it. I can't warm up to Savage, still consider it an ugly rifle except for a couple of models. Sure, they shoot well for the most part, but I still have to look at them. Even though it's a bit more painful I'd rather spend the extra money for a Sako or Cooper. Just one mans opinion. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal
 

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I went to Wallmart and bought a new 243 Savage package rifle for $339.00 a year ago. I broght it home and changed the barrel myself to a custom slow twist (1 in 17) 22-250. I changed out the rings and did a little work on the plastic stock. The thing is amazing, shoots like a laser out to 300 yards and was cheap compared to anything you will find. The accutrigger is good, not perfect, but much better than anything else on a stock rifle. Try a Savage, you won't be out a lot of money if it doesn't work out. Larry
 

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I am not a huge fan of the savages. I have had a few, but only in fimfire cartridges. They main problem I had with them was accuracy, which came from the horrible triggers that are installed. Throw in the accutrigger, and they would shoot a lot better. As far as a centerfire goes, I will own nothing but remington ( with the exception of my cz 527 in 204 I use for calling coyotes). I just have a lot better luck with the remingtons and with a little trigger work (which is about as easy to work on as an accutrigger) they shoot much better for me. My benchrest rifles all shoot half inch groups or less, something my buddies model 12 won't touch.
 

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Remington or savage? Your choice of cal and model. Very subjective to say the least so for me it`s an easy choice....Savage model 110 in .243.
bought in the early 60`s( 62-63) Always shot great, light to carry, for me anyway, looks are fine with me as well.
My first choice would be with out a doubt a Sav 99( pre-mil) Hands down!
If you own one you know what i mean. Your choice of cal. there`re all good.

" The best part of the hunt is not the harvest but in the experience."
 

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I had to chuckle a bit at Cal Sibley's comment. I own several savages, they are ugly, but they shoot well. 9 out of 10 heavy barreled savages on the rack will shoot 3/8" or so groups with factory ammo before you play with the trigger. They are hard to look at, but they are perfect hunting guns. I never think twice about holding the briars back with these guns to save my own hide. Now if I had a pretty expensive gun I would probably come home looking like a deranged nurse was chasing me through the woods.
 

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Hello bugflipper,

I have no doubts about the accuracy of your Savages. I have two that I'm very happy with. I personally think Remington is cuting their own throat lately. The lions share of the market could well be Savages in the near future. Some of us simply do not like synthetic stocks, a lot of us in fact. Savage made a step in the right direction when they recently altered the stocks on some of the 112 laminates. The model 40 also has merit. Like it or not, if we're paying for it we have a right to express a preferrence. It is quite possible for a rifle to be both accurate and attractive. To each his own. Best wishes,

Cal - Montreal
 

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Discussion Starter #10
savage,sako cooper

To each his own...Sad but true the big american companies rifles do leave something to be desired..All have thier good & bad points..U pays your money and takes your chances...I really like older Sako rifles..The gunsmiths seem to prefer Remington...Recently I had a rotten example of the Big Rem ADL plastic / junk barrel 22-250 Re-Barreled..I ended up putting it into a Restored 40X 1960's vintage walnut stock..The end result was a very accurate 6MMBR gun..one in ten twist hart barrel/.270 turn neck chamber.. that can put 4 out of five into an inch at 300 meters...This barrel is just getting broke in ..That near max load of Varget & 87gr V-MAX bullet combo is really a nice load..I took many chucks with that gun on a three day hunt in Pa this past october...If u had to do it all with new parts & I did except for the stock..U could buy a new Cooper rifle...Trigger,new barrel & a custom stock run into real money real fast...The savage u can work on yourself is a bargain..that and really decent aftermarket barrels are about 300 bucks ready to go no waiting..In fairness Mr. Hart got me my Re-barreled action back in three months...3 months earlier than they estimated..I was grateful..I'll try to post the 6mmbr pic on the front page...mike in ct[/img]
 

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:cb2: I got the Savage police model in .223, and it's the most accurate rifle I own. This was waaaaaaaaaay before the acutrigger. The first time I took it to the range I thought something was wrong with the safety. It wasn't the safety, it was the 8+ pound trigger. My local gunsmith took care of that, and that is all I have ever had done. Great shooter. I'd get another, but they don't make anything in the caliber I want. Gonna have to get an E. A. Brown single shot in 6.5 BRM since I can't find anything in 6.5 Swede.
 
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