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Does anyone else find a pre-occupation with an apocalypse odd? All the current major religions, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, and Judaism all predict an end time, or final battle between good and evil. Indeed, societies that have left records, such as Aztecs, Incans, and Egyptians, all seem to indicate an ultimate judgment and destruction of the world. Stranger still is the similarity in method and the signs of its’ approach; complete with the same belief that those faithful in their religion, will be spared suffering.

I find it interesting that almost all faiths share this common belief, even those we have discarded as mythology. It seems that a beliefs status as “religion”, “sect”, “cult”, or “myth” is proportional to the number of its’ adherents. In the future I wonder if scholars will be looking at our contemporary religions and beliefs as “mere superstition” the way we do those who worshiped celestial bodies.

May your God be with you and you with your God

jon
 

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“We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are.”
- Anais Nin

And so it is with religion. This fact is inescapable.
We don't read the meaning of the author, we read what the words mean to US.
This is what social scientists call a personal worldview.
Our worldview is made up of a variety of factors, predominantly our environment from birth, perhaps before birth if you understand Dr. Jung, and those environmental influences around us.
I think anyone that takes each and every word of the Bible as the irreverent word of God is missing the most important Biblical messages.
Re: The "end times", yes you are correct. Almost every religion has an apocolyptic disasterous end of the "world".
Of course the very idea is absurd.
The "world" has many meanings. Too many people who take a literalist approach think it means the end of this physical earth, which of course is extremely unlikely, save a collision with a asteroid, or worse yet, two consecutive terms under a Liberal adminstration. (joke here folks)
If the Bible is so 'literal' why did Jesus teach in parables and why the huge amount of symbolism in the Bible?
Someone please tell me how to take the book of Revelation literally?
EVERY generation has claimed to see the begining of the end as prophesied in Revelation since the book was written.
Every one!

"In the future I wonder if scholars will be looking at our contemporary religions and beliefs as “mere superstition” the way we do those who worshiped celestial bodies."

Yes, most likely.
The sad thing is that there is nothing superstitious in the Bible. It's the way WE SEE IT.
 

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When I read the scriptures I ask for and believe the Holy Spirit guides my understanding of what I am reading. Sometimes the message is clear, sometimes the answer is "later... you don't need to know right now." If you ask around you will find that most true believers share this same experience. So this 'world view' thing you keep talking about does not apply to true believers who are filled with and lead by the Holy Spirit. If this is not your experience than perhaps you need to examine your relationship with Christ. This is my honest belief, you may not agree with it and so be it. His sheep will know His voice.
 

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"So this 'world view' thing you keep talking about does not apply to true believers who are filled with and lead by the Holy Spirit."
Sorry, but this 'worldview' I keep talking about is an inescapable fact of life.
Everyone has a worldview. Literally everyone.
And it applies to everyone, even those who THINK they are true believers.
You THINK you are a true believer which is, of course, part of what makes up your worldview.
This does not make you correct. It only makes you think and believe you are correct.
This is the exact same methodology that made the suicide Muslim believers fly airplanes into the Twin Towers.
There is no difference at all.
You believe you are dead right and so did they.
Worldview.
You could be just as wrong as you believe the terrorists were.
You know you are dead right based on a FEELING or FEELINGS, not facts.
So it goes with religious people.
They base beliefs on feelings.
 

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I think what Brett is saying is that true believers have their faith in a "sovereign" God. Brett believes, like I do, that God is in control of EVERY aspect of his life, that He and He alone is in control (sovereign). I find rest and peace in knowing that my heavenly Father loves me, protects me, guides me and noone can snatch me from His hand. Nothing can seperate me from His love. "Worldviews" cannot and do not replace my Faith in a sovereign God. I am really not interested in anyones "worldview". I will let God speak "His view" to me via His Holy Spirit.
 

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WAIT A MINUTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Everyone take a deep breath, get a dictionary and look up paradigm.
(pronounced "pair a dime")
That is NOT 20 cents!
Look everyone has a worldview. A worldview is a paradigm or persepctive of how we view society and ourselves.
Your worldview defines who you are and how you operate, interact, with people, places and things.It's simply, put, as simply as I can get it here, it's simply how you SEE and THINK about EVERYTHING in your life.
Cheeeeesh. A worldview is not a religion. WE all have a worldview.
Are you guys perhaps confusing the term worldview with "of this world" or "wordly" as not of spirit or of God?
How am I confusing you?
Your religious, or spiritual perspective , or lack there of, IS your worldview.
This isn't rocket science.
Or is it? :-D
 

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You are right. Non-believers have "worldly" worldview and believers have
a Biblical worldview. Christians view on life should align with the God's Word.
 

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An example. Remember the courthouse killings recently in Atlanta. The young lady that was overtaken by the killer. A non-believer in that situation would have tried to take control of that situation by either trying to flee or by trying to overpower the killer. The young lady, a believer, put her faith in a sovereign God and He delivered her from a very serious situation. A modern day miracle in my opinion. Her "worldview" was having faith in God.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
As an aside I think being surrounded by a SWAT team and not wishing to die may have had something to do with with the gunman's actions.

This is all terrible confusing. On one hand Christians bemoan the decline of morality and the increase in society’s un-Godly behavior, and on the other they joyously proclaim it as a sign of the second coming. It would seem efforts to stem this “moral decay” only serve to delay the second coming.

Some have stated that we will be forced to worship “The Beast”, seems we have been doing this for some time. The fact that our coinage has embossed upon it, “In God We Trust” or that we pledge allegiance to “The flag of the United States of America and the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.” all seem to imply that the government of this country is acting at the behest of and upon the authority of God.

While this may be a pleasant notion, the fact is, we are a government conceived, created, and administered by human beings. Our appropriation of the divine seems only to diminish that divinity.

As Christians, are you sure that by using the power of government to proclaim biblical teachings and or prohibitions, such as, The Commandments, or creationism, and thus the state’s enforcement of adherence under its’ laws that the state and those that support these laws are not, in fact becoming, “The Beast”?

Are there any biblical references for Christ calling for the enactment of legislation by secular authorities? Today’s confusing of evangelism with legislation, or the sharing of a faith, compared to the enactment of secular law to further conversion or adherence to the beliefs of a faith seems in itself unbiblical.

May your God be with you and you with your God

jon
 

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RBishop hit the nail right on the head.

RBishop said:
I think what Brett is saying is that true believers have their faith in a "sovereign" God. Brett believes, like I do, that God is in control of EVERY aspect of his life, that He and He alone is in control (sovereign). I find rest and peace in knowing that my heavenly Father loves me, protects me, guides me and noone can snatch me from His hand. Nothing can seperate me from His love. "Worldviews" cannot and do not replace my Faith in a sovereign God. I am really not interested in anyones "worldview". I will let God speak "His view" to me via His Holy Spirit.
Jeager, you view everything from a purely secular world view. You allow only what you can see, touch, feel, and prove 'scientifically' to influence all of your thoughts and discission making. RBishop, myself and many other true believers are not bound by a secular world view. We believe in a sovereign God who created and has control over everything. We believe that our God is a loving God who cares about us and is willing and able to do whatever it is we request of Him so long as it within His will, we have faith and we do not allow sin, doubt or fear to block the power of the Holy Spirit.
I have seen people healed when science said that there was no hope. I have seen situations where individuals have escaped injury when 'science' or secular reasoning tells us they should have been killed. I have felt the Holy Spirit direct me and lead me into or away from situations to my benefit or for the benefit of those I care about. I have felt the Holy Spirit move me to call on someone or to help someone when I did not even know that person was hurting or needed help. At times I did not even realise that it was the Holy Spirit speaking to me until some time later.

I can not give you faith Jeager, only God can give you faith (threw the Holy Spirit) but you have to ask Him for it and be willing to receive it.

'See' you all in a week. God bless.
 

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RBishop said:
You are right. Non-believers have "worldly" worldview and believers have a Biblical worldview. Christians view on life should align with the God's Word.
Thank God we got that mystery solved.
Now we are on the same page and we agree on what a simple concept the "worldview" is. Sure PRACTICING Christains have a Bible based worldview, non-believers don't.
Brett quotes: "Jeager, you view everything from a purely secular world view."
Jeager answers" No I do not. Think carefully about that statement.
If that was my entire worldview I would NOT BE HERE talking about non-corporeal matters, spiritual life, Angels, Saviour, God, etc.
We think differently about Biblical matters but our worldview is ALMOST THE SAME!
We don't agree on certain subject matter, hair splitting, etc. but the basic message we DO agree on.
For the record, and try to remember this in the future, I have been to the altar and "saved", have felt the Holy Spirit completely overcome certain fleshly temptations and did a total paradigm shift.
For the love of Pete, I speak a language based on science, don't let that fool you into thinking I'm not spiritual.
I tend towards spitituality than secular(secular, see that word here) religions. (now I'm in fer a whippin' again!)
fe352v8
You hit a great point. Why are Christians trying to convert our government, world, etc. when God's comming to take over anyway?
God's comming, Christ comming, whatever you call is should be looked forward to not feared.
Personally I'm gonna be overjoyed if I live to see such a wonderfull event.
no more hunger, crime, lust, fear, death, pain.
What's to be afraid of?
 

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BRETT, R BISHOP. Agreed Sirs.
jaeger. You aren't even in the same book as these guys, let alone the same page. POWDERMAN. :? :? :? :?
 

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Leave it to powderman :roll:
 

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Brett:
Being somewhat confused by you recent post (above) I read and re-read it trying to understand the condemnation of the content.
You imply.......no, you don't imply, you SAY I have not faith and am NOT willing to ask for the ability to have faith.
How to you come to that conclusion?
Now I think I understand,
Your use of the word secular may be causing confusion.
Here's a dictionary excerpt:
1. Worldly rather than spiritual.
2. Not specifically relating to religion or to a religious body: secular music.
3. Relating to or advocating secularism.
4. Not bound by monastic restrictions, especially not belonging to a religious order. Used of the clergy.
5. Occurring or observed once in an age or century.
6. Lasting from century to century.
n.
1. A member of the secular clergy.
2. A layperson.
You see the word has many meanings and can mean wordly but not necessarily meaning lack of faith or a person without spirituality.
I.E. "a member of secular clergy" or a layperson.
It's NOT a dirty word, though it once was, at least in religious societies.
Actually the word has a different meaning than it did a hundred years ago, but that's another story.
You claim to have been directed by the Holy Spirit.
I would posit that many scizophrenics say the same thing!
However I do know what you mean as I've felt the same influence on my own life.
You have seen healings and such that science can't explain.
No kidding!!!!
Who hasn't? That's hardly profound or even rare.
You say you can't give me faith.
I didn't ask you for faith.
I have my own faith.
 

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Jaeger
I am trying very hard to understand the context of your thought and your point.
If you would be kind enough to clarify for one who is apparently dense I would appreciate.
Blessings
 

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jeager106 said:
powderman said:
BRETT, R BISHOP. Agreed Sirs.
jaeger. You aren't even in the same book as these guys, let alone the same page. POWDERMAN. :? :? :? :?
Yeah, you got that right. :twisted: :-D
The devil made me do it, thats my story, and I'm sticking to it. :) :) :) :) . POWDERMAN.
 

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powderman said:
jeager106 said:
powderman said:
BRETT, R BISHOP. Agreed Sirs.
jaeger. You aren't even in the same book as these guys, let alone the same page. POWDERMAN. :? :? :? :?
Yeah, you got that right. :twisted: :-D
The devil made me do it, thats my story, and I'm sticking to it. :) :) :) :) . POWDERMAN.
I don't think the devil is openly welcome in this forum if you get my drift :eek: :shock:
 

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JPSaxMan:
Don't know off hand where the verse(s) are but I do believe we are admonished not to mock Satan as he IS the God of this world.
I do believe that Satan has us outgunned.
That is why I pray for God's will for me and ask for help in seeking the truth of his word.
There are many pitfalls layed before us by Satan, many not obvious.
That's one reason why I got into Christain History to try to sort out all the confusion, at least in my own mind.
 

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Pitfalls such as other religions where the people who worship them will really go to Satan's **** and not their believed God's heaven? Friend of mine and I came across that...found it very interesting, these religious debates :) .

And why not mock Satan? Although he is the God of THIS world, God is my true god and I will go to him when I die (I pray so) therefore what I do or say about Satan now might affect me now, but all that matters is when I slip the bonds of earth, I will go to Heaven (again, I pray so).
 
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