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Since CA has gone really stupid, and Arnie has banned lead bullets for hunting here next year, is there a replacement metal that can be used to cast bullets?

Is linotype just another lead?

I read the info here, http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm and it seems pure antimony is out of the question, as it's too brittle. Is there a replacement that's even close?
 

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lineotype is just lead alloyed with antimony and tin. About the only thing that will cast well other then lead is tin or pewter and they are both very expensive and would cast bullets that are way to light. As of right now when the lead is gone so will the casting be gone.
 

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I believe the lead ban only affects those areas populated by the condors, or maybe its the spotted owel! However, I'm sure it does not effect the entire state.
 

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That's very unfortunate. I do agree that lead is having a devastating effect in CA. Those effects being most obvious in the politicians and Hollywood types. I'm not sure HOW they are being exposed but obviously it is effecting their judgement. That would leve me to believe the problem is not the lead in bullets but another source.
 

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They say that the condors are getting lead poisoning from eating gut piles left by hunters. I don't think that any scientific evidence backs this up, don't see how it could! The gut piles shouldn't contain any lead because most animals that are killed by hunters aren't gut shot. The parts of the animal that is shot is usually eaten by the hunters and their families and I haven't heard of too many of them dying from lead poisoning. I hear that the Tejon Ranch (a large land holding east of Bakersfield) has banned lead bullets for hunting on their property. Doesn't bother me too much since I can't afford to hunt there anyway.
 

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Some of us affected by this crap believe that it would be much simpler to shoot the damned condors. At least that way the Commie legislature's agenda wouldn't be furthered.
 

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smokinjoe5150 said:
Some of us affected by this crap believe that it would be much simpler to shoot the damned condors. At least that way the Commie legislature's agenda wouldn't be furthered.
I think that if we looked at habitat encroachment into the birds area we might find more of the problem. The condor is one of those creatures whose time has run out. The lead from the bullets we fire is just an easy scapegoat for the irrational idiots that make the rules for this state. The condor is going the way of the grizzly in CA, too many people and too much habitat encroachment for such a fragile animal to survive.

BTW! Like your avitar! Did you spend much time in a Mk 5?
 

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Lead is the scapegoat. There is some evidence that these birds are succuming to lead poisoning and I believe in a single confirmed case that it was for bullet fragments, however if bullets are a major cause where are all the other dead predatory birds? The eagles, hawks, falcons, owls, magpies or others that aslo scavage on gut piles? A natural source seems more likely. One might even suggest that the heavy smog that floats through the state may be a large contributor. I'm willing to bet 10 years from now this ban will have had no effect, except maybe allowing the birds to starve to death cause they have far less food to scavage.

This law probably should have had a sunset clause.
 

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"dakotashooter", I'm in agreement with the natural sources idea, and their natural range is in the smoggy areas. There are numerous areas of concentration of heavy metals (mercury, lead, selenium etc.), some of which are, or have been, mined. Abandoned lead and mercury mines are in almost every area of geothermal activity. The incidence of naturally occurring heavy metal poisoning is more feasible to me than that of lead bullets. I'm willing to agree to anything that will protect a species from going extinct, however, I need to see more scientific proof of the cause than the emotional stuff that we have now. We have been putting bandaids on the large wounds that "we" created for too long now, it's time to look for the real cause.

"smokinjoe5150", those superlite rigs were after my time. We were still in the Mk 5 and the Jack Brown!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The condor is proven to be way more susceptible to lead poisoning than the turkey vulture. I'm acreationist, but this sure sounds like survival of the fittest to me. Let 'em die.

I have another question, how does zinc rate in the weight category compared to copper and lead?
 

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Zinc is toxic too! :-\

Tim

http://www.tufts.edu/vet/lead/index.html

Lead Alternatives:
Ceramics, bismuth, steel, natural granite, tungsten and recycled glass are all nonpoisonous alternatives for sinkers and jigs. Tin has been approved for use in Great Britain, but may be associated with other problems. Zinc should NEVER be considered a safe alternative to lead. Commercially available zinc is toxic, in fact, swallowing zinc containing pennies has caused illness or death in zoo birds, mammals and children. Zinc and lead are both very toxic. For more information on where to find alternatives to lead hunting and fishing gear, look at the following sites:
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well then how hard is copper to melt? Is this something an electric furnace like the lead ones, can do? I know it's a lot higher melt temp, but I have no idea how high an elec furnace can go.
 

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That's interesting. I was melting some lead and making cast bullets with my gunsmith today. He was reloading me some 45/70 ammo with lead bullets.
 

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Yup! The Cal. DFG just broadened the restriction to include .22 rim fire too. Now within Condor range, "The new regulations go one step beyond the law by banning not just the use on lead ammunition, but also the POSSESSION of lead ammunition in affected areas."

This ban was railroaded into effect with limited public/hunter comments allowed, and once signed into law was unilaterally expanded. The DFG took the side of the so called "conservationists" with not one case of EVIDENCE. I can no longer support the DFG with license purchases and intend to hunt out of state from now on. I wonder if the "Conservationists" will contribute to the Department of FISH and GAME annual budget????
 

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Wow. If the thing dies so be it but it had nothing to do with lead. I would be looking into moving.
 

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Dusty said:
I believe the lead ban only affects those areas populated by the condors, or maybe its the spotted owel! However, I'm sure it does not effect the entire state.
So screw your rights and the constitution. Even the "king" is not in charge any more.

Your second amendment rights are determined by the wind and a whim of a bird brain condor.

Just kill 'em all and reduce their range, I say.
 

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http://www.mohavedailynews.com/articles/2007/12/09/news/state/state8.txt

The condor was once found from coast to coast, but hunting, pesticides and development drove the birds to the brink of extinction. The federal government declared the bird endangered in 1967.


Scientists for years have said condors are poisoned when they ingest lead while feeding on the bullet-ridden carcasses of other animals.


So when does the ban on pesticides and development go in to effect?
 
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