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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I gotta figure out why my gun will not go off with reloads. I can pop a primer on a sized case. No matter how deeply the bullet is seated this gun will no go off. Once I get the gun to go band it will be time to worry about scope mount. I'm not impressed with the gun.
 

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I gotta figure out why my gun will not go off with reloads. I can pop a primer on a sized case. No matter how deeply the bullet is seated this gun will no go off. Once I get the gun to go band it will be time to worry about scope mount. I'm not impressed with the gun.

I'll give you my best guess:

It's the ammo, not the rifle.

Headspace must be changing (getting shorter) during bullet seating. Are you crimping with the bullet seating die maybe? An ammo headspace gauge will help you see what the before and after headspace is.

 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
t's the ammo, not the rifle.
Thanks. What you say is totally correct. However, I could take a sized primed case and pop a cap in the rifle. COl was not an issue since I seated the bullet further in until it nearly fell into the case. These cases had been trimmed. The rifle would go to "half cock" in the rebounding lock. Primed case would fire. Loaded round would not. These guns have a large following. I feel lonesome being the only person in America with this problem. 😊

Added: I was able to fire the rounds in my 788 that would not fire in the Handi Rifle.
 

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I think it's too difficult to say without being able to check the ammo in a headspace gauge. The shoulder is where the .223 headspace is measured from. Bullet seating depth shouldn't change the shoulder, unless your seating die is doing this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The hammer will fall but the will no go down onto the firing pin. The hammer will drop and fire the cap on a sized case. Load in a bullet and the hammer will fall onto "half cock" This situation does not have to do with headspace. You are correct on headspace problem generally. This problem is most likely mechanical. It's as if the action is not locking. The reloaded rounds work very well in another rifle. Remember loaded rounds will not fire. Sized cases will. My gun is a .22-250.
 

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The hammer will fall but the will no go down onto the firing pin. The hammer will drop and fire the cap on a sized case. Load in a bullet and the hammer will fall onto "half cock" This situation does not have to do with headspace. You are correct on headspace problem generally. This problem is most likely mechanical. It's as if the action is not locking. The reloaded rounds work very well in another rifle. Remember loaded rounds will not fire. Sized cases will. My gun is a .22-250.
That's interesting JG. Are you sure it's an sb2 receiver? These don't have a half cock hammer position. Something broken? Check the transfer bar?
 

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The hammer will fall but the will no go down onto the firing pin. The hammer will drop and fire the cap on a sized case. Load in a bullet and the hammer will fall onto "half cock" This situation does not have to do with headspace. You are correct on headspace problem generally. This problem is most likely mechanical. It's as if the action is not locking. The reloaded rounds work very well in another rifle. Remember loaded rounds will not fire. Sized cases will. My gun is a .22-250.
If your primed, sized cases will pop a cap in your Handi and your loaded rounds will not, then it has to be something that you are doing in your loading process that is causing the failure.
 

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The hammer will fall but the will no go down onto the firing pin. The hammer will drop and fire the cap on a sized case. Load in a bullet and the hammer will fall onto "half cock"
As Dave said, modern frames don't have a half cock, and hammers never touch the firing pin unless the hammer has been replaced with a vintage rebounding hammer, the lifter striker assembly transmits the hammer strike to the firing pin on modern frames, what are the frame serial number prefix letters?

Tim
 

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Tim i was racking my mind thinking about this half cock thing. none of mine do that, not even my toppers.
possible some ones been inside his frame and didnt get it back together right?
there are lemons. some years ago a non handi friend got a new nef shot gun that wouldnt go bang. i couldnt figure it out in a few minutes and advised him to return it. he did and got a different gun, no problems with it.
 

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The early Toppers had the half cock, I have 3 Handis that I converted to delete the transfer bar using double coil hammer springs and vintage hammers that have half cock notches(see FAQs), so I know they were made, the gold are from M163/164s, I also have one is blued that has a half cock notch, here's a pic of one of the gold hammers compared to a modern hammer.

Shooting a 22-250 barrel on a vintage cast iron frame would create a head space issue in the best scenario, something catastrophic in the worst.

Tim

Added: Numrich hammer links.




old-new hammers.jpg
.
 

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hmm, i have that topper 3030 with the gold hammer and trigger that we talked about some time ago. no half cock but we know some one built this frame so perhaps the half cock was deleted. my other topper is a 72 20ga, no half cock.
i actually prefer the rebound hammer and ejector, im old school lol.
yeah a high pressure cartridge and cast iron frame dont go together. i hope the OP checks this out for his own safety.
 

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The M163/164 were made earlier, 1965-66, had gold hammer and trigger, they also had a small, low hammer spur compared to modern hammers which makes them so much easier for a low mounted scope.

Tim
 

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Hmm... If I remember right, my dad used to talk about head space problems with rimless cases that had been fired with low pressure loads (like poping a primer in an unloaded case. What he said happened was that the fireing pin strike caused the case to shorten causing the head space problem when loaded with a full charge. Don't know if that fits, but something to think about.
 

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Have you tried factory ammo yet? Is this new brass ? Have you measured the brass compared to SAAMI specs ? No you are not the only one to ever have this issue but all possible issues need to be eliminated to get to the problem. Kurt
 

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What caliber and what dies are you using? Compare your empty sized case to a loaded round. My bet is you’re shortening the shoulder when seating your bullet.
 

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The OP hasn't been online for a week to answer questions asked, from his description he's got a parts gun with a high pressure barrel on a vintage cast iron frame which is a dangerous combination, a 22-250 barrel requires a steel alloy SB2 frame which does not have a half cock notch on the hammer, it has a transfer bar, the hammer never hits the firing pin directly.

Tim

The hammer will fall but the will no go down onto the firing pin.

the hammer will fall onto "half cock"
The rifle would go to "half cock" in the rebounding lock.
My gun is a .22-250
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks for the interest in my problem. I fully understand about transfer bars and rebounding hammers. In the old days it was not unusual to have to replace transfer bars that frequently broke in earlier H&R's. The half cock was in quotes to indicate the rebounding action had stopped the hammer. Yes I know the gun does not have a half cock. The rifle is a late model with camo stock and heavy barrel. The barrel is numbered to the receiver. I was a secondhand gun that came in a trade.

Problem Load. I was using a set of Lee dies with Lee bullet seater. The bullets were correctly seated. I started reloading in the late 1970 and did not ride up on a turnip truck. :) Brass used was Remington. Brass was correctly sized and trimmed. Yes the gun has been fired at first with Winchester factory loads without problem. The load that blew primers was a 50gr. bullets with 34 grains of Accurate 2460. Max for that bullet weight runs 36grains or so. After this incident is when the functioning problem started. The best I can do is to resize the trimmed case. The charge the case and seat the bullet using the Lee bullet seater.

As I said the gun will fire a primed case. A loaded round will not fire. These loaded rounds will fire in the other project gun. That is a 788 Remington.

My solution is to put the gun back in the corner where it will remain. :rolleyes: Thanks again.

Added: I think there's another set of dies down in the Skunk Works. I also have a couple of fancy bullet seaters. I set the Lee's aside and repeat loads with a different charge and report back. I'll get right on this. Stick with me. Thanks again.
 

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Just wonder,never heard of something like this,but is there the slightest possibillity that once the bullet are seated the neck expands to much and the fit is to tight in the chamber?..that is if all other suggestions above are OK?

Maybe if you have some cast bullets or a other brand of bullet,just maybe.
 

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444M - I think a tight fit at the neck would help position the case head tight to the breach face and facilitate firing instead of defeating it. The OP talked about seating bullets deeper. I would try seating them out (with a lighter load) to touch the lands if possible to again hold the case head hard on the breach face. He does mention a primer was blown once and thats when problems started. Is the firing pin easily removed to inspect for damage or is there fouling in the firing pin hole? Overall I tend to agree w others that the shoulder may be getting set back on bullet seating. Try backing the die out a 1/4 or 1/2 turn if possible, chamfer case mouth well so bullets seat easy, seat bullet out to barely touch lands and try firing. This barrel may have a slightly "long" chamber. What bullet is being loaded? A boat tail or square bottom flat base? Or try a different seating die.
And don't crimp the bullet.
my 2 cents - wishing you luck

oh and make sure the seat die is clean. could gunk be setting the shoulder back? You probably don't put the case in the size die when you only prime it?
Its more often with handguns or cast rifle, but I've had gunk build up and cause seating problems.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks, first up I got out my original set of Lyman dies out in including a PA die. That's the one that has the sliding bushing to center the bullet. This takes the Lee dies totally out as a factor.

I also have a Vickerman seater where I can watch the bullet seat into the case. I am skeptical of the seating being a problem. However, we'll give it a try as the bullet needs to be seated anyway. I've got one or two seaters that do not crimp. I'll use those coming out of the gate. I'll seat to the lands first starting out.

As to the firing pin, the rebounding system prevents the hammer from hitting the firing pin with a loaded round.

I prime cases using the old fashioned now discontinued RCBS primer seater. It's a pedestal using a standard shell holder. The shell holder fits into the same part as on the currently made automatic bench mounted press.

Gummed up sizing die: I will make sure the dies is clean. I use Imperial was for 99.9% of my sizing. The only time this got to be a problem was doing some heavy duty case forming.

On down the way I have a .22caliber stem for the Lyman M die. We can expand the neck down around the 5th inning on this project.

How are we doing? Can we buy the person that comes up with the answer a new Yugo? :oops:
 
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