[Coyote65]

New to the forum here so bear with me. After reading this well schooled forum I have decided to purchase a Tech Force 99 Magnum and have it drop shipped to charlie the tuna for a tune. I am unsure whether to get the 177 or the 22 cal, probably will only target shoot and maybe a few starlings here and there.
There seems to be alot of scope controversy here and this brings me to my 2nd descion, which scope to go with?
Thanks in advance for your inputs.

 

[mjfa]

I have decided to purchase a Tech Force 99 Magnum and have it drop shipped to charlie the tuna for a tune. I am unsure whether to get the 177 or the 22 cal, probably will only target shoot and maybe a few starlings here and there.
There seems to be alot of scope controversy here and this brings me to my 2nd descion, which scope to go with?

Hi Coyote65,

For target shooting you'll be better served by a low-medium powered gun in .177 cal. than by a magnum springer that is better suited for hunting. It is known that pellets at velocities over 900 fps loose stability on flight and it is better, accuracy wise, velocities between 560 to 900 fps in accordance to the shooting distance. A mild springer would also allow for longer shooting sessions before shooter's fatigue sets on and would suffers much less of parts and scopes breakages. For the money you intend to throw on a chinese TF99, tuning (a must on this gun) and a magnum rated scope (not magnum-proof), you may invest in something nicer and better suited for your purpose, like a german R7/HW35 or Diana 26/28 with a quality medium rated scope, and get something that you may treasure for the rest of your life or sell it later for the same or more money than you paid for. From the start you'll be enjoying the pride of owning and shooting a fine precision gun, that won't be prone to malfunctions and scopes wrecking, even without the need for a tune, while saving money.
http://www.weihrauch-sport.de/englisch/e_startseite/e_index.htm
http://www.diana-airguns.de/DIANA_Catalogue.pdf

 

[Coyote65]

Budget

Thanks for the reply mjfa,
I'm working with a budget of 300 dollars or less, just trying to get the most for my money while at the same enter into the air rifle sport.
After I start enjoying the sport I'll put back some coins for a more expensive rifle and start a collection.

 

[mjfa]

You're welcome Coyote65,

but look at the prices and do the math

TF99: $136 + tuning + magnum rated scope (expensive)

Diana 24: $137 + low recoil rated scope (economic)

RWS 94: $186 + medium recoil rated scope

Diana 34: $192 + medium recoil rated scope

HW 30: $215 + low recoil rated scope (economic)

It's your money, it's your satisfaction, it's your choice.

Good luck and joy!

 

[Bowtied]

Coyote65,
Check this out. Sounds like you're about in the same boat as me, looking around and trying to figure out what to get. I'll at least pass on what I've learned and hopefully it'll help you out. First, you mentioned the scope controversy. I think you've probably read some of my threads where I asked about scope power and which one would be best for an airgun. As mjfa said, if you buy the magnum springer, 99M for example, you will need a scope that can with stand the recoil. One thing I did not know is that some of these scopes are AO which stands for adjustable objective. This enables you to dial it down so it will focus at very close ranges which is really important for airguns. I have also pondered .177 or .22 and I think I'll have to choose the .22. From what I've found, this is the better of the two for taking small game. I know I will most likely be killing paper but I don't like spending money twice and it will only be a matter of time until I'm out taking crows, rabbits and squirrels. (Been a long time since I had some fried squirrel :wink: ) And just to be clear on that one, rabbits and squirrels are good eatin' but don't worry, the crow shooting would simply be pest control. Can't fathom eating a crow!!!
Here is what I HOPE to be ordering this time tomorrow...
http://www.compasseco.com/shop/products.html?maingroup=Tech Force Air Guns&secondgroup=Air Rifles
BE SURE, if you buy a Tech Force, to get it from these guys as it will come with an upgraded spring that is supposedly much better. TF 99M .22 cal $135.96
http://www.compasseco.com/shop/products.html?maingroup=Optics&secondgroup=Tech Force TF312X44AR Tech Force Air Rifle Scope. 3-12x44AR $79.95 This one is supposed to hold up pretty well and has the AO. Not to mention you would have all the power you need for longer shots.
http://www.compasseco.com/shop/products.html?maingroup=Scope Mounts&secondgroup=Beeman B5030M Beeman Deluxe Two-Piece Medium Scope Mount $34.95 These cost a buck or two more but are great quality (from what I've read).
Notice this is NOT buying it as a combo but instead you'd be buying all three pieces separately. This is because most folks report that the Tech Force scope mounts that come in the combo are really cheap and fall apart.
Hope that helps.
Bowtied

 

[Bowtied]

Sorry, forgot to say that the above setup would run ya 250.86 bucks which is well within your 300.00 point. But as mjfa said, it is all up to you! If you think you'll hunt only paper and the occasional bird then the .177 could be the way to go. I know there are a lot of manufacturers out there and it can be overwhelming!

 

[Coyote65]

Gun Dilema

Thanks for the input Bowtied,
I have decided on the .22 cal and I agree with you on the scope and mount. Now that thats out of the way back to the gun issue.
mjfa, I am looking for either side or underlever action eliminating several of my choices. I really like the HW 97 K especially in the blue grey laminated stock, but this means more dollars, still contemplating TF 99 VS HW 97 K.
I have been using the review center for some more helpfull hints seems like a pretty good bunch of information there also here's the link.
http://www.reviewcentre.com/products9.html
Thanks for all your input it's greatly appreciated.

 

[Bowtied]

Umm, are you talking about http://www.compasseco.com/shop/products.html?maingroup=Weihrauch&secondgroup=Air Rifles

That is an AWESOME looking rifle! If you're considering that and the TF99M, that's probably like comparing apples and oranges. Of course, I'm new at this and I am basing that on finish and price tag alone :shock:

 

[dave]

If you are willing to put up the cash for an HW97K, don't even bother looking at or comparing it with the TF99. That would be like comparing a Cadillac to a Yugo. The guns are priced accordingly too though. The TF with the inexpensive scope will set you back under $300, plus what ever repairs will be needed when the spring or seal fails, and they do fail often on these guns. Then theres the cost of a tune, and it will need a tune to be any sort of decent shooter. The HW with a good scope and mount is going to cost you nearer to $800, but you won't need spend the money to get it tuned. These guns are well made and very reliable, chances are you'll shoot it a long time before theres any problems. The HW also has the Rekord trigger, probably the best design ever to be put on a sporting airgun. Its far and above the Chinese trigger.

 

[Coyote65]

Sticking to the budget

After considering my budget of 300 or less I'm staying the course, save the HW 97 K for after I shoot awhile and get seriously into it. It's really easy to get caught up in the thrill of higher end guns.
Still weighing my options for the best gun for my budget but the cal and scope situation has been solved, along with either side or under action, again thanks for everyones input, it was greatly appreciated.

 

[jeager106]

Avoid BSA scopes.
B been
S suckered
A again

I'd put a good scope on any springer. The best you can afford.
Later if you want to upgrade to a magnum springer you will have the scope and plenty of practice.

 

[Lawdog]

Re: Sticking to the budget

After considering my budget of 300 or less I'm staying the course, save the HW 97 K for after I shoot awhile and get seriously into it. It's really easy to get caught up in the thrill of higher end guns.
Still weighing my options for the best gun for my budget but the cal and scope situation has been solved, along with either side or under action, again thanks for everyones input, it was greatly appreciated.

Just for information value only, the TF 99M is a clone of the HW 97. Sure the HW 97 has a better trigger but the TF trigger will be very good to excellent after Charlie gets done with it. Accuracy between the two is a toss up and power wise the edge goes to the TF99M. Both shoot dime size groups at 25 yards. Another thing is ANY springer rifle can benefit from a tune-up. In fact ANY air gun(rifle, pistol - PCP, pump or springer) can benefit from a tune-up.

Now for another suggestion for a scope other than the Tech Force & BSA models. Check out Leapers scopes at http://www.leapers.com/pages/airgun sport/airgun scope.htm. I prefer the BKL 30mm Double Strap scope rings, model 301, for the Leapers scopes. To view the BKL rings go to http://bkltech.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=BKL&Category_Code=300 to see the 300 series. I have sent off an order of my own for a Leapers scope. They are being recommended by such notable air gun hunters/shooters/authors as Jim Chapman, Randy Mitchell and Tom Gaylord. If it good enough for these guys, it’s good enough for me. Lawdog

 

[Coyote65]

Leaning toward the RWS

After a week of searching pondering and discussing things here at GBO, I'm leaning towards this.
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=596
A little more than I wanted to pay but sounds like a good deal to me. Any input on this combo anyone? The only thing is it's not a side or underlever but I'm sure it'll be fine.

 

[dave]

The Diana 40 is ok, but if you want to stay closer to your $300 mark take a look at the Webley Xocet. The Xocet is a well balanced carbine, 7.5 pounds and only 38 " long. Its also made as a regular length rifle, 44" long. You can get them new for a bit over $200.

http://www.compasseco.com/shop/products.html?maingroup=Webley Scott&secondgroup=Air Rifle

Quality is second to none, and they are excellent shooters. Mine makes near 14 ft/lbs in .22, and will shoot sub dime size groups at 30 yards. Drop in tune kits are available that remove all spring vibration, and the adjustable 2 stage trigger is good as is or can be easily improved in a few minutes with a Dremel and a polishing stone.

The scope pictured is a Simmons Wild Turkey Federation 4x32 shotgun scope, in a set of Beeman 2 piece rings. Its held up very well for several months now, and I've only had to make minor adjustments to it.

 

[mjfa]

RWS Diana 40 is an excelent choice!

 

[Lawdog]

Re: Leaning toward the RWS

After a week of searching pondering and discussing things here at GBO, I'm leaning towards this.
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=596
A little more than I wanted to pay but sounds like a good deal to me. Any input on this combo anyone? The only thing is it's not a side or underlever but I'm sure it'll be fine.

The reason I don't care for break barrels(even though I own a few) is they can/have been know to have "barrel droop". Barrel droop can happen on any break barrel rifle, even high dollar models(I have seen it). Sure it can be cured easily enough with adjustable mounts but it still can be a royal pain in the butt. This and the fact that side cockers and under levers are noted for their accuracy is why I prefer under levers. Lawdog

 

[mjfa]

Barrel droop is not a big issue, don't occur on every single break barrel, and is a matter of just using the appropriate scope mount. There are more serious issues associated mainly with poor manufacturing and lack of quality control, which are common on chinese guns. Have you ever know of a chinese match shooter competing with a national product?

 

[Lawdog]

Barrel droop is not a big issue, don't occur on every single break barrel, and is a matter of just using the appropriate scope mount.

I never said barrel droop was a big issue, I said it was the reason I don't care for break barrel rifles. That and the fact that under lever and side cockers are more known for their accuracy.

There are more serious issues associated mainly with poor manufacturing and lack of quality control, which are common on chinese guns.

Not all Chinese air rifles are that way! Just the same as not all Eurpoean air rifes are top quality products either. There are a number of really cheaply manufactured(due to poor quality control) air guns coming out of Europe. Gamo is a prime example of that.

Have you ever know of a chinese match shooter competing with a national product?

As a matter of fact I have.

We are proud of declaring: The Industry Brand that Shanghai air Gun Factory produces became a great attraction in the seventh Asian Games, where Chinese athletes won team championship in shooting sport item and 1 gold. They broke the records of the Asian Games. For several years, more and more shooter teams have used the Industry Brand air guns including air rifles and air pistols. These teams captured excellent achievements in domestic and overseas games. So far these athletes have broken the world shooting records 3 times and won 19 golds in all in national games and Asian games as well as the international games[/color]…

By the way, Shanghai Air Gun Factory is the manufacture of the Compasseco, Inc. Tech Force line of air guns. Lawdog

 

[dave]

Theres a difference between competing and being competitive. As I recall, the Chinese medal winners and record holders use or used FWB and Anshutz guns. Theres no Industry Brand gun that I've ever seen that would be competitive in world class competition.

Break-barrel rifles led the pack at all competition levels for many years before the advent of the precharge and SSP rifles. The Walther LGs and the Diana recoilless guns were and still are as accurate as any side- or under-lever gun, more so than most too.

Yes, there are European guns that are not top quality, but those lower end guns at the least are comparable to the best that the Chinese have to offer. I have yet to see a Chinese made airgun with quality that would come close to the better Euro guns like HW, Diana, Webley, FWb, etc.

 

[mjfa]

As a matter of fact I have.

Quote:
We are proud of declaring: The Industry Brand that Shanghai air Gun Factory produces became a great attraction in the seventh Asian Games, where Chinese athletes won team championship in shooting sport item and 1 gold. They broke the records of the Asian Games. For several years, more and more shooter teams have used the Industry Brand air guns including air rifles and air pistols. These teams captured excellent achievements in domestic and overseas games. So far these athletes have broken the world shooting records 3 times and won 19 golds in all in national games and Asian games as well as the international games…


By the way, Shanghai Air Gun Factory is the manufacture of the Compasseco, Inc. Tech Force line of air guns. Lawdog

As is read in the above quote, it doesn't states anywhere that the chinese athletes won shooting Industry Brand airguns, just because they DON'T. It says that the Industry Brand product became an attraction at the Asian games. Here are the facts, see by yourself:

Olympic Games 2004 in Greece, Athens
http://jga.anschuetz-sport.com/erfolge/meisterschaft.php?id=358&lang=e

http://www.feinwerkbau.de/ceasy_f.html?cPageId=63

http://www.issf-shooting.org/update...ting_Sport_14_-_22_August_2004_-_Athens_,_GRE

http://www.issf-shooting.org/update...ting_Sport_14_-_22_August_2004_-_Athens_,_GRE


Asian Shooting Championships Kuala Lumpur 2004
http://jga.anschuetz-sport.com/erfolge/meisterschaft.php?id=332&lang=e

http://www.issf-shooting.org/update...ps_-_06-19_February_2004_-_Kuala_Lumpur_,_MAS


ISSF World Cup Shanghai 2002
http://jga.anschuetz-sport.com/erfolge/meisterschaft.php?id=262&lang=e

http://www.issf-shooting.org/update...ISSF_World_Cup_in_all_events_-_Shanghai_,_CHN

http://www.issf-shooting.org/update...ISSF_World_Cup_in_all_events_-_Shanghai_,_CHN