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What are ya'll using for your b/p shot shell? Ya loading them by hand of machine?
Shotshell Loads
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132 Posts
I am using a Mec 600 Jr. I take off the Powder Container and just dip my BP into the case. Then use the Mec to put in Wads and Shot and then crimp.
Right now I like the Rem. Green hulls and 80 gr of BP with an overpowder hard card wad and then a 1/2 Felt Wad then shot.
YE HAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!! Nobody gonna accuse you of light loading. And it will take down the Targets.
Pete :wink:
Right now I like the Rem. Green hulls and 80 gr of BP with an overpowder hard card wad and then a 1/2 Felt Wad then shot.
YE HAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!! Nobody gonna accuse you of light loading. And it will take down the Targets.
Pete :wink:
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59 Posts
Howdy ,I use the Mec 600 Jr with an adjustable shot/powder bar . I load American Pioneer powder ( Clean Shot ) just like you would that other stuff . My load is 70grs of 2F with a Red Wad and 1 1/8 oz of #7 1/2 shot . I used to use the fiber wads but found the plastic wads hold a better pattern .
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5,983 Posts
I use an old Bair loader and hand dip my powder charge. 83 Grains of 2F topped with an over powder card, cushion wad, and 1 1/8 oz of #6 shot. I load this in those El Cheapo Federal hulls from Wally world. (use the shells fer practice 'n then reload em with BP, throw em away after I fired em once with BP)
Regarding wads 'n scatterguns. As already mentioned some folks get better patterns with plastic wads and BP. I've exchanged thoughts with a couple of BP experts about this and the concensus is that plastic wads will give better patterns in new guns but old fashioned card wads will do better in older guns. There's an explaination fer this phenomenom. Newer guns are chambered and bored different than the ones made back in the earlier years of cartridge shot guns. Sometime in the late 60s manufactures started chambering and boring thier guns to take advantage of the plastic wads that started to come into use then. By about 1980 they pretty much had it down pat and could get superb patterns with the new reloading componants available. However, the newer guns didn't perform as well with shells built around the old card & cushion wad stuff. This really wasn't a problem because most reloaders were happy to go with the newer stuff for loading anyway. The few guys who did stick with the older card wads found that the newer guns were blowing the patterns all over the place and eventually switched over. Meanwhile, the guys with those older guns were finding they were getting REALLY tight patterns and even seeing a lot of "clumping", as if thier guns were overchoked. (which they WERE with the newer componants) So a lot of those old guns ended up in the closet and shooters didn't use them much. (this is a good thing, now cowboys can find them cheap! :grin: )
Anyway, my scattergun is an antique Crescent 12 bore, imported around the turn of the last century. I tried loading with plastic wads and got bad clumping in my patterns, along with gaping holes in it! After fighting with it for a while I was about to give up on it when I ran into an oldtimer at the range who put me on the right track. "Try these" he said and handed me a box of old card & cushion wads. I did, and the rest is history! That old antique will now throw patterns that a humming bird would have serious trouble trying to find a way through! :-D
Another very real aspect of loading BP in CAS scatterguns is choke! A friend of mine brought his sawed off Rossi to the range and we found that his gun was putting "doughnuts" on the pattern board. He was using card & cushion wads in a gun with no chokes at all! The wads were blowing through the shot column! He went to a plastic wad and this cured his problem. Sometime later he had a screw in choke system installed and found that he could get very good patterns with the old fashioned wads....Go figger!
Regarding wads 'n scatterguns. As already mentioned some folks get better patterns with plastic wads and BP. I've exchanged thoughts with a couple of BP experts about this and the concensus is that plastic wads will give better patterns in new guns but old fashioned card wads will do better in older guns. There's an explaination fer this phenomenom. Newer guns are chambered and bored different than the ones made back in the earlier years of cartridge shot guns. Sometime in the late 60s manufactures started chambering and boring thier guns to take advantage of the plastic wads that started to come into use then. By about 1980 they pretty much had it down pat and could get superb patterns with the new reloading componants available. However, the newer guns didn't perform as well with shells built around the old card & cushion wad stuff. This really wasn't a problem because most reloaders were happy to go with the newer stuff for loading anyway. The few guys who did stick with the older card wads found that the newer guns were blowing the patterns all over the place and eventually switched over. Meanwhile, the guys with those older guns were finding they were getting REALLY tight patterns and even seeing a lot of "clumping", as if thier guns were overchoked. (which they WERE with the newer componants) So a lot of those old guns ended up in the closet and shooters didn't use them much. (this is a good thing, now cowboys can find them cheap! :grin: )
Anyway, my scattergun is an antique Crescent 12 bore, imported around the turn of the last century. I tried loading with plastic wads and got bad clumping in my patterns, along with gaping holes in it! After fighting with it for a while I was about to give up on it when I ran into an oldtimer at the range who put me on the right track. "Try these" he said and handed me a box of old card & cushion wads. I did, and the rest is history! That old antique will now throw patterns that a humming bird would have serious trouble trying to find a way through! :-D
Another very real aspect of loading BP in CAS scatterguns is choke! A friend of mine brought his sawed off Rossi to the range and we found that his gun was putting "doughnuts" on the pattern board. He was using card & cushion wads in a gun with no chokes at all! The wads were blowing through the shot column! He went to a plastic wad and this cured his problem. Sometime later he had a screw in choke system installed and found that he could get very good patterns with the old fashioned wads....Go figger!
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130 Posts
I am doing my 16's in a Mec Sizemaster with adjustable shot/powder bar. I have recently reduced my powder charge from 3 1/4 dram down to 2 5/8 drams (72gr) ffg elepahnt to reduce the strain on old Elsie. I used one ounce of fine shot for a nice square load. Shoots well with card and fiber wads and pie fold cheddite or activ hulls.
I have a MEC 762r Grabber. Has anyone else loaded BP with one of these?I can't very well shoot BP in the pstols and rifle and not do it with the shotgun! I have a large supply of Federal gold medal hulls left over from my skeet league days. If anyone has used that machine or has a recipe for that hull let me know.
Thanks
Dennis
Thanks
Dennis
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25 Posts
I load mine on a Lee load-all, but the procedure is the same for all:
-STS/AA/Federal paper hulls
-Size+deprime
-prime
-remove from machine and pour in a dipper of powder. If you have the Lee dipper set the 4.3cc dipper is just about right for CAS shooting. Use FFG. Lee also makes a dandy adjustable dipper, remember that your volume of powder should be the same or a little less than your volume of shot, never greater than. A volume of powder greater than the shot volume will blow the pattern every time. Most folks use too much powder.
-Seat wads- For traditional wads www.circlefly.com has all you need, and are what I use. First a .125" card wad onto the powder, followed with a .5" fiber wad. Or you may simply use a Winchester RED wad. For either, 20-30 lbs seat pressure is ample.
-Drop your shot. BP likes larger shot, good rule of thumb is to use at least one size larger than you would with smokeless. For GP/CAS I like #6, though many ranges specify no larger than 7 1/2.
-Crimp- fold crimp is fine. For paper hulls I cut off the folds and use a Roll crimper from Sabot Technologies with a Circle Fly overshot card.
-STS/AA/Federal paper hulls
-Size+deprime
-prime
-remove from machine and pour in a dipper of powder. If you have the Lee dipper set the 4.3cc dipper is just about right for CAS shooting. Use FFG. Lee also makes a dandy adjustable dipper, remember that your volume of powder should be the same or a little less than your volume of shot, never greater than. A volume of powder greater than the shot volume will blow the pattern every time. Most folks use too much powder.
-Seat wads- For traditional wads www.circlefly.com has all you need, and are what I use. First a .125" card wad onto the powder, followed with a .5" fiber wad. Or you may simply use a Winchester RED wad. For either, 20-30 lbs seat pressure is ample.
-Drop your shot. BP likes larger shot, good rule of thumb is to use at least one size larger than you would with smokeless. For GP/CAS I like #6, though many ranges specify no larger than 7 1/2.
-Crimp- fold crimp is fine. For paper hulls I cut off the folds and use a Roll crimper from Sabot Technologies with a Circle Fly overshot card.
Now I've gotta question for you pards loading that black stuff in yore shot shells. Might be a dumb one but ya know iffen I don't ask I'll never know.
When loading BP in metallic cartridges you are caustioned to NOT use a standard powder measure as the stactic electricity MIGHT spark and set off an explosion. The measures made for use with PB use only brass and aluminum I believe.
When using most any shotshell loader I'm familiar with you drop the powder from a powder measure not unlike that used in reloading metallic cartridges. Is it not just as dangerous to use a standard shotshell loader to do this as to use a standard powder measure when loading metallic cartridges?
GB
When loading BP in metallic cartridges you are caustioned to NOT use a standard powder measure as the stactic electricity MIGHT spark and set off an explosion. The measures made for use with PB use only brass and aluminum I believe.
When using most any shotshell loader I'm familiar with you drop the powder from a powder measure not unlike that used in reloading metallic cartridges. Is it not just as dangerous to use a standard shotshell loader to do this as to use a standard powder measure when loading metallic cartridges?
GB
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GB, in theory, yes it is just as dangerous as using a plastic measure for metalic cartridges. Most people, myself included, remove the hull, and charge with powder by hand, then procede as normal
I have been looking and asking if ANYONE had first or even second hand information of powder having been igmited from the use of a plastic powder measurem and have found no one.
There are some that have done a bit of experimenting, and couldn't ignite the charges with static electricity.
I THINK Calamity Jane, one of the contributers here, has done some work as well. It's been a while, but I think it was her that was talking about it about a year or so ago. Maybe she'll chime in here.
I for one am about ready to start using the powder hopper, and measure
I have been looking and asking if ANYONE had first or even second hand information of powder having been igmited from the use of a plastic powder measurem and have found no one.
There are some that have done a bit of experimenting, and couldn't ignite the charges with static electricity.
I THINK Calamity Jane, one of the contributers here, has done some work as well. It's been a while, but I think it was her that was talking about it about a year or so ago. Maybe she'll chime in here.
I for one am about ready to start using the powder hopper, and measure
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130 Posts
Hey Ho GB!
I don't believe there is any iron in the old wive's tale about surface static igniting Holy Black. I used to take great precautions about grounding or common grounding and such. Now, I do keep the humitity in my loading room at about 40%, but that is about it. My plastic Elephant bottles happen to fit my Mec press just fine too. The red Lee plastic parts also seem to have no cling in my operation. Your results may vary, ya rolls the dice and take yer chances.
prs
I don't believe there is any iron in the old wive's tale about surface static igniting Holy Black. I used to take great precautions about grounding or common grounding and such. Now, I do keep the humitity in my loading room at about 40%, but that is about it. My plastic Elephant bottles happen to fit my Mec press just fine too. The red Lee plastic parts also seem to have no cling in my operation. Your results may vary, ya rolls the dice and take yer chances.
prs
Well, since ya asked...
I'm committed to AA hulls since I bought a LOT of 'em from Minnie Aldinger. I size 'em on a MEC collet sizer that I borrow from Bass Pro :wink:
Deprime & prime on an old Mec from ebay, stand 'em in homemade trays while I dip lee's 4.3 into Dragon 2f or whatever.
Into my Texan progressive for the rest - .20 nitro card and a fat Alcan fiber wad usually 5/8. 'Round the carrousel for an ounce of shot and crimp. Haven't patterened this load but it knocks 'em down at my club. For some reason seems to outsmoke everybody else, maybe the blowby around them old wads adds to the effect. Usta hate shotguns now they're me favorite.
Goatlips
I'm committed to AA hulls since I bought a LOT of 'em from Minnie Aldinger. I size 'em on a MEC collet sizer that I borrow from Bass Pro :wink:
Deprime & prime on an old Mec from ebay, stand 'em in homemade trays while I dip lee's 4.3 into Dragon 2f or whatever.
Into my Texan progressive for the rest - .20 nitro card and a fat Alcan fiber wad usually 5/8. 'Round the carrousel for an ounce of shot and crimp. Haven't patterened this load but it knocks 'em down at my club. For some reason seems to outsmoke everybody else, maybe the blowby around them old wads adds to the effect. Usta hate shotguns now they're me favorite.
Goatlips
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132 Posts
For me it is the Mec with an adjustable charge bar. I really like the STS hulls. I did use the AA's till I tried the STS Hulls.
I also use an over the powder card and a 1/2 fiber shot cushon wad then fill with 7 &1/2 shot.
GOOD ROUND> Will take them knockdowns FLAT DOWN!!!!!
Works for me ,your milage might very.
Hope this helps
Pete
I also use an over the powder card and a 1/2 fiber shot cushon wad then fill with 7 &1/2 shot.
GOOD ROUND> Will take them knockdowns FLAT DOWN!!!!!
Works for me ,your milage might very.
Hope this helps
Pete
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2,068 Posts
Dennis, I use the shot cups. I do however cut out the little "legs" between the wad and cup just for more powder room, but I shoot a 20 ga. and want all the room I can get for powder and shot. It's working out to about 65 gr powder and a few pellers over and ounce of shot. The combination works pretty good, I even use this load for rabbit hunting. Your gonna get a little melted plastic through the bore, but it doesent affect the performance and it cleans up really easy.
So correct me if I'm wrong. I can find the shortest wad/shotcup something along the lines of the winchester red, and then see how much powder I can get in the shell with that component and just kind of see what works??
Also, is a little compression in order? From what I have read on some other forums I should be able to get 75 grains or so in the shell, but I'm not sure how much shot they are using. Any idea what kind of velocity that will give me? Thanks
Dennis
Also, is a little compression in order? From what I have read on some other forums I should be able to get 75 grains or so in the shell, but I'm not sure how much shot they are using. Any idea what kind of velocity that will give me? Thanks
Dennis
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1,623 Posts
BP shotshell loads
Your BP shotshell loads can be rated in "dram equivalent" for velocity purposes.
The amount of BP in drams produced a given shot velocity, and when smokeless propellants became standard, the velocity translated to "dram equivalents" of black powder.
For that 75 grains of BP and 1 or 1 1/8 oounces of shot, you should get appx 1000-1100 fps.
Actually, the velocity is not nearly as important as pattern uniformity.
And yes, some compression of the BP is necessary. It was normally provided by the wad column height, the shot, and the overshot card wad and roll crimp in old paper shells. In modern plastic shells, that compression is determined by the cushion, shot, and star crimp.
Your BP shotshell loads can be rated in "dram equivalent" for velocity purposes.
The amount of BP in drams produced a given shot velocity, and when smokeless propellants became standard, the velocity translated to "dram equivalents" of black powder.
For that 75 grains of BP and 1 or 1 1/8 oounces of shot, you should get appx 1000-1100 fps.
Actually, the velocity is not nearly as important as pattern uniformity.
And yes, some compression of the BP is necessary. It was normally provided by the wad column height, the shot, and the overshot card wad and roll crimp in old paper shells. In modern plastic shells, that compression is determined by the cushion, shot, and star crimp.
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