Graybeard Outdoors banner
1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,333 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi. No thanks to you guys ;D, I have a new to me Huntsman .50cal. Bought the new plug with the intentions of shooting BH209, now I see reference in another thread to 5744 and 4198? I have smokeless experience with my 45-70 conversion and a .50cal Savage. Could someone enlighten me on shooting smokeless out of my Huntsman? Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,534 Posts
muznut said:
Big difference between breech plugs. I wouldn't recommend it with the 7/8 plug because not much meat left on the barrel. With the 5/8 I played plenty. PM me if you want details.
The sabot is your safety valve, not the thickness of the breech plugs. The reason this is possible is because of the steel that H&R used. The steel for the Huntsman & Sidekick MZ barrels is the same as for the regular rifle barrels. Both unmentionable BP are okay to use for this. If your traveling this road, remember don't try to hot rod the loads. Caution is the word. As noted on another thread: Note the loads used for the Savage Smokeless is not directly interchangeable with what can be used in the Huntsman/Sidekicks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,333 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
muznut said:
Big difference between breech plugs. I wouldn't recommend it with the 7/8 plug because not much meat left on the barrel. With the 5/8 I played plenty. PM me if you want details.
I am sure most that are shooting smokeless out of a Huntsman are far more knowledgeable in pressures and breech plug designs than I am. The size and design of the unmentionable breech plug is my biggest concern shooting smokeless out of a Huntsman. Nothing wrong with the unmentionable plug, just due to my lack of knowledge, I am not comfortable using it for smokeless. I feel pretty safe with my 45-70 conversion, and have a new in box 45-70 should the need/want arise for another smokeless muzzleloader. I appreciate those who took the time to share their opinions and experience with me, but I'm just gonna stick with BH 209 in my Huntsman. Thanks again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
OldSchoolRanger said:
muznut said:
Big difference between breech plugs. I wouldn't recommend it with the 7/8 plug because not much meat left on the barrel. With the 5/8 I played plenty. PM me if you want details.
The sabot is your safety valve, not the thickness of the breech plugs. The reason this is possible is because of the steel that H&R used. The steel for the Huntsman & Sidekick MZ barrels is the same as for the regular rifle barrels. Both unmentionable BP are okay to use for this. If your traveling this road, remember don't try to hot rod the loads. Caution is the word. As noted on another thread: Note the loads used for the Savage Smokeless is not directly interchangeable with what can be used in the Huntsman/Sidekicks.
Here's your sabot safety valve at work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmsBF6CXs18 and with the 7/8 breech plug I don't feel comfortable with 1/8 of steel around my breech plug. That's why I traded of my huntsman 7/8 plug ML for a sidekick with a 5/8
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
That video was more about scare tactics than anything else. A gross overload with a powder that is way to fast for the application in the first place. A Savage load would be 44 grains of 5744. That is a far cry from 120 grains of HS6. I say that not to defend the smokeless crowd, but because it is an unrealistic display. There are many smokeless shooters because they don't want to clean their guns properly. I do not shoot smokeless and do not intend to in the future. I shoot BH209 in my Sidekick that has a 7/8 breech plug from Ben Hubbard and I am happy with that setup.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,534 Posts
muznut said:
Here's your sabot safety valve at work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmsBF6CXs18 and with the 7/8 breech plug I don't feel comfortable with 1/8 of steel around my breech plug. That's why I traded of my huntsman 7/8 plug ML for a sidekick with a 5/8
Really? Is that the reason you knocked the 7/8" BP, as unsafe compared to the 5/8" BP? Did you really pay attention to the video? Who is dumb enough to load 120 grains of HS6 into a BP rifle, as a matter of fact, why not load 120grs of HS6 into a regular rifle, how about a 30-06? Don't even think that much powder would fit in a 378 Weatherby Magnum.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,534 Posts
muznut 54 - Don't take my above post as a personal slight. It wasn't meant that way, just my way of commenting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,047 Posts
FWIW, when I was researching what metal H&R used for the 50 cal huntsman barrel I didn't ask about the 50 cal sidekick.

BB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,534 Posts
bikerbeans said:
FWIW, when I was researching what metal H&R used for the 50 cal huntsman barrel I didn't ask about the 50 cal sidekick.

BB
BB - I did, I was told by our resident expert, that it was the same as used in the other rifle barrels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
LHitchcox said:
That video was more about scare tactics than anything else. A gross overload with a powder that is way to fast for the application in the first place. A Savage load would be 44 grains of 5744. That is a far cry from 120 grains of HS6. I say that not to defend the smokeless crowd, but because it is an unrealistic display. There are many smokeless shooters because they don't want to clean their guns properly. I do not shoot smokeless and do not intend to in the future. I shoot BH209 in my Sidekick that has a 7/8 breech plug from Ben Hubbard and I am happy with that setup.
I'm well aware of 120gr of HS6 being a gross overload of a fast pistol powder. It is a scare tactic but with merit, Cva has been sued before because some idiot with no brains bought a 99 dollar muzzleloader and used a BP measure and dumped a large dose of pistol powder down the tube. My point of the link was not to think a sabot will save your arse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
OldSchoolRanger said:
muznut said:
Here's your sabot safety valve at work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmsBF6CXs18 and with the 7/8 breech plug I don't feel comfortable with 1/8 of steel around my breech plug. That's why I traded of my huntsman 7/8 plug ML for a sidekick with a 5/8
Really? Is that the reason you knocked the 7/8" BP, as unsafe compared to the 5/8" BP? Did you really pay attention to the video? Who is dumb enough to load 120 grains of HS6 into a BP rifle, as a matter of fact, why not load 120grs of HS6 into a regular rifle, how about a 30-06? Don't even think that much powder would fit in a 378 Weatherby Magnum.
I payed plenty of attention to that video but payed even more attention to a breech plug that had only 1/8 inch of steel surrounding it and that's not counting the depth of the threads. That's why I traded my 7/8 BP huntsman for a 5/8 BP sidekick as soon as they came out.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,782 Posts
Some here might want to do more research. It is my understanding that Green Mountain made at least the early Huntsman/Sidekick barrels for NEF. The same company that made drop in barrels for the T/C Sidelocks, and Knight Rifles barrels. I can take a slug from my .502" Knight bores with 1:28 twist rate or my .502" NEF bores with 1:28 twist rate, and they are a perfect match. The land to groove ratio is identical.

This would include both my 2003 Stainless Steel NEF Huntsman and 2004 Stainless Steel NEF Sidekick, both with 7/8" breech plugs. Now the barrel on my 2008 Stainless Steel H&R Sidekick (Yes, H&R, under Remington umbrella) with 5/8" breech plug seems to be a horse of a different color.

I know for a fact that the MU breech plug was not designed or intended for shooting smokeless. I was the tester of those plugs for Blackhorn 209 and other BP Subs. That plug uses a direct dump of primer flame into the powder through a rather large flash hole with no real flame channel other than the transition from the bottom of the primer pocket. The flash hole starts at ≈ 0.040", and will enlarge rather quickly using smokeless powders. This flash hole is not like a replaceable vent liner, and anyone that knows smokeless muzzleloading knows what happens when the flash hole in your vent liner enlarges into the 0.035ish and above range does.

Anyone shooting smokeless in these rifles with any breech plug need look no further than themselves for full responsibility of their decision to do so. The makers of the rifles and breech plugs, make no claims of their capability to do so. Actually, quite the contrary.

It's your rifle and your life, but I think it rather irresponsible to promote this in these factory rifles with a breech plug that clearly was not designed for it. There are new muzzleloading enthusiasts that read here and have absolutely no clue as to the apparent dangers.

Just something I feel needed to be said.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top