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SPORTERIZING MILITARY RIFLES views and tho

I have to agree. I currently have an old Swede that has a short corroded section at the muzzle end of the barrel (shooting corrosive ammo & storing muzzle down?-I don't know how). For me to buy a new barrel and pay to get it installed, I'd be better off buying another one. However, I can cut off the bad section, add scope mounts, bend the bolt and put it into some new wood for just under $100 and take a worthless shooting gun and make it into a good deer hunting rifle. No one is hurt by missing a non-shooting gun, and I do have a usable gun that does look pretty good. I guess spending more than the gun is worth for the sake of keeping it original takes a different mindset than I have. Of course, I like all of the street rods driving around on the streets, too. Custom can be cool!
 

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SPORTERIZING MILITARY RIFLES views and tho

Larry, could not agree more, some guys have ways of artificially inflating prices in order to make money out of what most of us consider a hobby. See my post under Garands to see what I mean.
 

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SPORTERIZING MILITARY RIFLES views and tho

Some here suggest that mil-surplus prices may one day "fall out the botton". With some rifles that may be so??However, when you talk of these rifles there are some that are always gonna be highly sought after.For example the Finns captured Russian rifles & rebuilt them to Finn specs. Some arsenals did outstanding work(Tikka for instance) & a rifle from there is all else being equal gonna be worth more. One arsenal didn't make but about 10 or 15,000 rifles. They are rare today,highly sought after,& every time one is sporterized the others value goes up.So you might want to learn about the markings on Rifles because abeat-up dog from the right place is worth more than new arsenal-rebuilds are from another.A couple friends & myself made a pile of money off of those facts I have outlined for yall. :)
 

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SPORTERIZING MILITARY RIFLES views and tho

josegrande said:
Some here suggest that mil-surplus prices may one day "fall out the botton". With some rifles that may be so??However, when you talk of these rifles there are some that are always gonna be highly sought after.For example the Finns captured Russian rifles & rebuilt them to Finn specs. Some arsenals did outstanding work(Tikka for instance) & a rifle from there is all else being equal gonna be worth more. One arsenal didn't make but about 10 or 15,000 rifles. They are rare today,highly sought after,& every time one is sporterized the others value goes up.So you might want to learn about the markings on Rifles because abeat-up dog from the right place is worth more than new arsenal-rebuilds are from another.A couple friends & myself made a pile of money off of those facts I have outlined for yall. :)
Your right I just bought 6 russian/finnish mosins from Samco $79 all have all the markings to prove their history and are were rated very good but I recieved 5 excellent condition guns. We do know what to look for the finnish used "#41" as their mark too so if it doesn't have the noted [SA] look for the "#41" on the barrel too. Some of the finnish reworks have "fat stocks" and some didn't they left the russian skinny stocks, another thing is the "crossed cannons" on the rear of the finnish guns too. If you read the story of "rifles of the white death" were 4,000 russians were held off by 32 finn's and the russians retreated with 3,600 and their were 4 finn's left do you think they had better rifles? When Hitler seen this he thought russia would be an easy invasion but the weather/supplies played a factor too. Plus the Finn's were tough serious fighters and the rest is history for sure. If anyone thinks the mosin's don't deserve the recognition they are wrong they have earned their place in history and tell tales of battles won and lost and those $70 mosin's have the proof. BigBill
 

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SPORTERIZING MILITARY RIFLES views and tho

It wouldn't chop up a nice military rifle, but there are enough out there that someone else has started on, not finnished and sold cheap.

That was the case with my Mod98 8mm mauser, the stock was a laminated military stock that had the forend shortened and the rifling was gone in the last few inches of the barrel.

I carved down the stock, stained it green, oiled it, added a rubber but pad, shortened the barrel and added a scope. Had about $150 into it when done. I've got a picture of it along with some other guns in my photo site, (listed under home site), on my profile. This gun I am now going to rebarrel and chamber to .475x2.5" Belted Magnum.

I also just got a hacked up 303 British for $60 at a gun show. I just ordered a synthetic stock for it. I may have the barrel cut back and add a scope. This will be my new "truck gun".

Hud
 

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SPORTERIZING MILITARY RIFLES views and tho

Hud,the 8mm is ok but Worf is cool. :)
 

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Sporterizing Milsurps

I guess beauty really is in the eye of the beholder. One man's milsurp artifact is another man's sporter project. To each his own and let's hope that everyone is either happy with what they have or has learned a valuable lesson from their mistake.

I've read the foregoing posts and have to agree with those who say that just because a rifle is a milsurp doesn't mean it's a valuable artifact. The way I distinguish run'o'mill military rifles that I would sporterize from those I would not is based on (my) two criteria: 1) does it have historical or personal significance? and/or 2) is it rare?

There are so many ho'hum Yugo 48s out there that likely never saw a day of conflict and would make nice sporters that, at the right price, I would not hesitate to reduce them to sporter fodder. However, almost any K98 with Nazi proofmarks and codes in tact is, in my estimation, an artifact worth preserving for all the (hopefully) obvious reasons.

To confuse things even further, what do we call and how do we ascribe value to "reverse preservation"? Several years ago, I purchased a very nice "137" K98 action at Springfield Sporter, then bought a nice barrel from RSI and a stock set from SARCO. When put together, it turned out to be one of the nicest K98s I've owned but it was not an "original" K98 put together in the proper time period. Is this more or less valuable than the mismatched Russian refurbs currently being sold?

This discussion will never be resolved to everyone's satisfaction. Let's just be thankful that those of us who have the freedom to make the decision of whether to sporterize or not sporterize still enjoy that freedom....where ever we live. I don't know if that makes sense to you, but it does for me.

Regards,
/Emil
 

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SPORTERIZING MILITARY RIFLES views and tho

I have a well worn Brazilian DWM 7x57 but with really nice wood that I wanted to rebore to 8x57 and adapt for a scope and Timney trigger. No other changes, except maybe add QD sling swivels. Strickly a shooter that would be perfect for all of that cheap 8mm mauser ammo I've hoarded and even for deer, hog and black bear hunting with handloaded 200 grain Nosler Partitions.

The gunsmith with whom I discussed this project shrieked that it would destroy the gun's "value." Yeah? How much would he offer to pay me for it now? Nothing. Can it really be worth less than nothing if I make some changes that will allow me to shoot it and enjoy it instead of gather dust in my closet?
 

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Sporterizing the Old Ones

Advocate:: when they rebore those shot out barrels, do they first remove them from the action or rebore them as attached??? I was just thinking that if the gunsmith removes the barrel before reborring, why not just get a new barrel and not worry about the older metal lasting. There are a number of places out that that will rebarrel your old 7x57 for about the same as it would cost to re-bore, I believe. And yes, you are quite right about the capabilities of the 8x57, especially with all the surplus ammo floating around out there. But ya know, if you really want to have a unique rifle, have it rebored or rebarrelled to 9x57. Regrettably, there isn't any mil-surp ammo available in that caliber but it is reloadable.

Just Mikey here.
 

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SPORTERIZING MILITARY RIFLES views and tho

Hey Mickey:

If you really want unique, how about the 9.3x57mm? Shoots .366 caliber bullets. Very popular in Europe & Africa, but almost unknwown here.

To answer your quetion, t hey do remove the barrel in order to re-bore it. Cost for the total job is $185.00. Advantage is that it's already inletted and fits the stock and lis entirely original except for the rebore. And I don't know anyone who will rebarrel and re-fit for less than that.

I have a couple of mausers and have contempalted several re-bore options including the 8x57, 8x57 AI, .338x57 Improved (aka .338 DGS) , 9x57 and 9.3x57.

There's a guy in North Dakota, Norman Johnson, who does this kind of work and really seems to know whtat it's about. Speaking of the 9x57, one of the popular re-bores with mausers is to use a .358 bore and to use a .358 expander in the reloading dies so that you can shoot American .358 cal bullets rather than European .355's. He said he could do a .358 x 57 mm with an AI (40 degree) shoulder. Compare the 9x57 with the .35 Whelen. The Whelen is a much longer case, but becuase so much of it is the long neck, the lengh of the 57 mm case from the case head to the shoulder is almost as long as the 35 Whelen. IMHO a 358 x 57 AI would probably be as potent as a factory loaded .35 Whelen. Also, Becuase the case to shoulder length of the 57 mm case is slightly less than the 30-06, you can die form improved cases from the longer 30-06 cases without the need for fire forming. That's what's really cool, at least to me. Would probably have to have a custom trim die made, but would pay for itself very quickly because you wouldn't need to fire form.

(Note: you can do the same thing with the .250 Savage AI using .243 Winchester cases. They die form right into .250 AI cases.)


I've also seen a 338 x 57 Improved, called the .338 DGS, that got 2600 fps with a 225 grain bullet. You could also die form this one from 30-06/270 cases in lieu of fire forming. What with the lighter weight .338 bullets (i.e. 160, 175, 185 Barnes X bullets, 180 & 200 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips and 210 Partitions, as well as the 225's and 250's) the .338x57 might be a better, more flexible choice. This would probably duplicate the .338-06. An interesting idea to contemplate.

The purpose of the 8x57 (and the 8x57 AI) is to use cheap surplus ammo. Also, the newly bored barrel is just like a brand new barrel. Some of the old miliatary barrels were grossly over sized and had really long throats. A more uniform bore and a shorter throat would produce better ballistics and better accuracy with the 8x57. The selection of 8mm bullets is really very good as of late. Hornady just added a 195 grain spire point and nosler a 180 grain ballistic tip and 200 grain partition.

The 9.3x57 is an old round that shoots .366 caliber bullets. Very popular in Africa and Europe, but almost unknown here. Swift, Barnes, Nosler & Speer make .366 Cal. bullets in 250, 270 and 286, 300 grain weights. But they are very expensive and not very flexible. Would be a fun round, but since it's only .008 larger than the .358 and does not have as much of a variety of bullets, the .358 x 57 would probably be best.

You could take a miliatary surplus mauser, re-bore for $185.00 and use a Scout Scope and you could have a neat .338, .35 , or .36 ca rifle for about $225.00. With the extended eye relief scope, you don't have to bend the bolt and you can still use stripper clips.
 

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SPORTERIZING MILITARY RIFLES views and tho

I mean my mauser barrel was so bad the rifling was gone and the pitts were so bad reboring/broaching wouldn't give me a new barrel again so I had to replace it. Its so cheap to just buy a good barrel and the 8MM turk ammo is $4.95/70rds heck i can shoot all day and not have to reload? Of course there are other barrels within $50 to $100 brand new too from .243 to .300win and all others inbetween wildcats included maybe next time I just wanted a cheap shooter for hunting/plinkin you can't beat the price $65 so far ("BS" before scope) it should be $200 max and it should be done. It pays to buy 98's with shot out barrels? And my two perfect yugo's can sit in the safe this gun will be well used along with my 7mm too. I plan to shoot all my guns none are exempt just some won't be for hunting.

To sum this post up some are for collecting and some are for sporterizing/hunting which ever we choose is up to us but we must think before we just do is my point once its done its hard to undo and if it can't be replaced maybe we made a mistake. I would rather build a gun than take one apart (a good one) we all make mistakes. I just wanted to raise an awareness. Thank's for all your input BigBill

I see alot of guys buying these sporterized guns and trying to change them back to orginal because their worth more to collectors $$ But the parts aren't so readily available now?? And these guns are scarce now too. But we can do both if we do it right with no loss.
 
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