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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
we talked about how the design of the stock can lessen recoil in another thread. instead of hijacking that thread, i thought i would create one for this.
so, what configuration do you believe is easier on the shoulder? any one have clue as to why?
i still believe my vintage toppers are the lightest recoiling rifles and shotguns ever, why is this? they are not special in any way.
i have a savage bolt in 30-06 and an austin halleck .50 muzzle loader, both with monty carlo stocks that kick like a mule. also several mossberg 500s that kick hard. all of these are heavier than the toppers.
 

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Comb height and stock drop have a lot to do with perceived recoil, a low comb on a fairly straight stock with little drop can make a big difference in felt recoil due to the cheek weld, a higher comb with a little rise in it's contour can bash your face more than a straight comb, depending on how it fits the shooter. Stock drop also affects felt recoil, the 45 Colt Carbine is an excellent example, the light barrel and drop of the stock caused lots of muzzle rise with just Ruger/TC loads off the bench, was brutal on my face. To mute the face brutality, adding a neoprene cartridge cuff to the comb can make a work of difference in perceived recoil, kind of a recoil pad for your cheek.

Tim
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
i could shoot that topper 3030 all day long with no pad, although every lever 3030 i ever shot had me convinced i never wanted one. lightest rifle i own but dont kick. its just like shooting the max, maybe even softer.
so Tim your saying a straighter stock but with not too much rise at the cheek shoots softer? that was kinda my thinking as well. i should line all my handis up and try to take measurements some how. now my 12ga h&rs kick, but about all 12s do.
 

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I built a .308 on a survivor stock a few years ago, very pleasant to shoot. Probably should not have sold it to my neighbor, but he really wanted it.
 

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The felt recoil on my Topper 20ga which has a stock similar to length, drop, and cheek rise as the factory wood that came with my 308 is the same as the felt recoil from my Topper 12 ga which also has a stock set up comparable to the Handi Rifle setup but the 12ga does have a recoil pad. Both were shot with 2 3/4 inch shells and both were target loads. I haven't actually weighed anything that I have but both the Toppers feel about the same weight which is much lighter than the Handi Rifle. The Handi rifle has a lot more to weigh it down though. Much heavier barrel and also the scope and it wears a synthetic Varmint forearm and a synthetic Handi Grip stock with a recoil pad. In my opinion the Toppers being so much lighter is the major difference in the amount of felt recoil.
Edit:
I have shot the 308 with it's factory set up and the felt recoil was more than with it's current set up.
Edit again:
The amount of felt recoil from the Topper 20ga is about the as my Remington 12ga Special Purpose shooting 3 1/2 Turkey loads with the Remington being a heavier gun.
 

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How would a person go about getting an actual measurement on the recoil from a gun?
Edit:
Hey Siri or Ok Google
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
wow ncs, my topper dont kick at all. mine is an older one and is a little heavier than later models.
i do notice the wrist is narrower on the vintage ones, though i cant see how that would effect recoil.
 

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not sure. i was meaning stock measurements in my earlier post.
I knew that's what you were talking about but then the hamster wheels in my head started turning and one thing led to another and round and round and throw in a comment about felt recoil and boom we get to how to measure recoil...... squirrel and yeah.
 
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Anyway what got me to that point was a way to have the same gun set up with different stocks and seeing if there is a difference made as far as the different stocks go for the amount of felt recoil.
 

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Okay... after a quick Google search. There is a way to measure it but it's far above my pay grade. It involves a complicated mathematical equation too. It's not a cheap set up either.
 

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One other thing to consider that hasn't been mentioned here yet is the LOP, length of pull, on your stock. Saw that mentioned in almost every article that I skimmed through. This is a simple and yet effective way to reduce the amount of felt recoil the article says.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
i seem to prefer shorter lop than i should at 6' tall. i like about 13.5" and have cut some of my newer stocks. seems like the old toppers are about that length any way.
 

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According to the article that I read, the proper way to measure your personal LOP is to shoulder your weapon in the shooting position and without moving your shooting hand from the weapon, drop your arm straight down to your side without moving your arm forward or back and while holding your weapon in your hand and between the crease in your elbow you either increase or decrease the LOP on your stock to whatever makes a half inch gap between the butt of your weapon and the crease or inside bend of your elbow. I'm gonna check this out later and see what I come up with.
 

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So actual measurement of recoil force is related but not the same as felt recoil. I had a savage 24 in 357 that was unpleasant to shoot with 357 (crazy, but true, and even more weirdly was very comfortable as a 20 gauge), and don’t mind shooting 45-70 with a synthetic stocked handi rifle. A tikka t3x in 30-06 was absolutely miserable for me, even though LOP was similar to the handi rifle. Drop plays another part, as well as weight and how the weight is distributed in the rifle. A book on the topic I found very valuable was the stock fitter’s bible, which is focused on shotguns but it’s all very transferable.

All the weird ways our bodies are different impacts things, I have shorter arms and a shorter neck I think that makes me like rifles with a shorter LOP generally. The survivor stock, while I don’t love it’s appearance, is crazy comfortable (especially with the cheek riser Kurt installed on mine). For my laminate straight stock I’ll cut it down and then build up the comb with a pad or a butt cuff to the point that it feels right.
 

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Follow up on some numbers. The actual LOP on the 20ga is 13.75 and both the 12ga and 308 are 14.50 which according to the method above would be the proper LOP for me. Which means I need to add .75 to the 20ga. Incidentally according to that formula, I need to add .50 to my Remington 870 Super Magnum Special Purpose because the LOP on it is an even 14.
Now according to the article that the LOP formula came from, that is part of the reason why I feel more recoil from the 20ga than I do from the 12ga.
Still haven't weighed anything as of yet. However, something else to consider is the fact that the 20ga is a full choke 26.25 barrel and the 12ga is a 27.75 full choke barrel. 1.50 doesn't sound like much but the Remington 870 is a 25 barrel with a breacher choke and a magazine extension to make it a 10+1 capacity which adds a lot of weight when it is fully loaded.
Both the 12ga and 20ga Toppers have the same drop and rise as each other which make them just under the top of my cheek. Both the 308 and Remington 870 come in at about half cheek but not completely in the jaw.
Am I over analyzing the situation again or does all this make sense to someone?
 

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I believe the worst stocks are those on slug specific shotguns as they really direct the recoil back and up into your cheek. The most comfortable stocked rifle I own is also the largest caliber I own on a CZ 550 FS in 9.3x62. It has a “hogs back” style European style stock that seems to direct recoil back and down away from your cheek. Perceived recoil is less than my Ruger American 30-06.
 

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I believe the worst stocks are those on slug specific shotguns as they really direct the recoil back and up into your cheek. The most comfortable stocked rifle I own is also the largest caliber I own on a CZ 550 FS in 9.3x62. It has a “hogs back” style European style stock that seems to direct recoil back and down away from your cheek. Perceived recoil is less than my Ruger American 30-06.
How about a picture of the "hog back". I'd like to see that.
 
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