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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I shot my Home built Swedish 1874 action Rolling block 45-70 today for the first time at a target at 200 yards using black and 535 Postells. I got three shots (measured center to center) at 1.250". I would have continued but I had only loaded eight and ran out sighting in for my 200 yard zero. Is this performance good for a 45-70 using black? I am a relative newbie to this :gulp: type of shooting.
 

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Charles

Is this for hunting or target shooting? If hunting, and these were three consecutive shots, it's fine. I assume they were shot with a fouled barrel.

If you are thinking of target shooting of any type, you need a ten shot string at minimum to correctly evaluate your rifle and load. I haven't gotten there yet myself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
3 shots but.....

This was done using a heavy barreled 34" octagon target style rifle off a sand bag. I realize ten shots is the common test of a target rifle and load I was just impressed that it grouped so well. I only had three to fire after sighting in. (Wish I had loaded more) The barrel had been fouled with five rounds while sighting in before shooting the group. I used three breaths on the blow tube between each shot. I was under the impression that these rifles only grouped about 1 1/2 MOA but I can see that they might do a bit better. I'll plan to be testing more soon :wink:
 

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Good grief, I'd say you got a shooter! Mine shoots 3 shots into 4" AT 100YDS, AND THATS BETTER THAN I CAN HOLD THE BARREL SIGHT! What's your latest progress? What bullets you using now? I've got a Lee mould .512-500. I'm hoping to work my way into this sport as I figure out how to do it. This and other forums sure help! Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
rolling block stuff

I have some problems with my trigger and should have sent it off several months ago but havn't had the extra funds available. I plan to send it off soon and can't wait to try it again with a lighter trigger pull. I used some 535 Postell style bullets lubed with SPG and cast by the good folks out of Oregon that come to the Puyallup, Washington gun show every month. I used Goex Cartridge powder and benchrest magnum primers. My compresssion wasn't too exact so I guess I'll need to work on that aspect of my loads. :D
 

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Charles

Yes, you've got a lot of potential there. You also have a lot of work to do to find your right combination of bullet, powder, wad, lube, etc.

50-70

I'm passing on what I've learned from experts, not my own experience, but try a different bullet. Rdnck has not found the Lee molds to shoot out of his rifles at all well. He shoots Pedersoli's mostly. The Lyman Postal or a custom mold would be worth the money. Especially if someone can send you some bullets to try before you plunk down your money. I'd check here or on the Cast Bullet forum. Several guys from Shooters.com sent me samples for my 40 caliber, 45 ought to be easy.
 

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I believe I'd try a few more with this particular load, it looks like an awfully good starting place to me!

Shrink, did you miss that this was a 200 yard group? :D
 

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Charles,

I'd work really hard at compression and several other things. With a little luck, your groups won't get too much bigger! And that with purchased bullets! If I were you, I'd be really nice to the person who cast them-many purchased cast bullets are junk, but those appear really good. Write down all the pertinent information so you don't forget how you loaded these.

As several mentioned, you really need more shots to evaluate the target potential, but 3 shots in 5/8 MOA is an incredibly good start!

I shot a 10 shot group at 285 yards with my Lone Star Roller Saturday. It measured 7" wide and 3.5" high (shifting wind), with 7 in 4" wide and 3.0" high. One of the best groups I've ever fired.

If you can repeat that, you're likely to be very competitive in either BPCR silhouette or mid-range competition.

Clarence
 

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Butler

50-70's was a 100 yd. group shot with Lee mold bullets.
 

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Then I guess I better pay more attention! :-D
 

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Charles,
Before spending a lot of money on a trigger job, try getting some .047" piano wire, and make a replacement trigger return spring from it. You'll find that a trigger pull of about 4 lbs. will result with just this simple change.
Just bend an eye on the screw end, then shape it the same as the old spring, but at the contact point of the trigger, just bend a 90 degree bend to contact the trigger.
I did this to my 1867 RB and it is great now!
 

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Charles,

Marlinman has it right. Getting rid of that horribly heavy trigger return spring makes a big difference.

Besides very light stoning to make sure the trigger sear surfaces are smooth (they usually are, I've found), there are two ways to do a trigger job on a Roller.

You can either silver solder a thin shim or build up with a spot of heli-arc weld to make a pad just in front of the hammer sear surface to lessen the sear engagement. Some people say an alternate is to drill a hole just smaller than 0.060" piano wire and tap a short piece of it into the hole. Either one of these methods may prevent the trigger sear from contacting the hammer sear surface. Then dress down the built-up area until the sear barely catches. Measure the trigger pull and continue to stone the area until the trigger pull increases to the weight you want.

The other way is to stone a taper on the top edge of the trigger sear. In this method, the metal immediately behind the trigger sear acts as the built-up area and lessens the sear engagement. In this case, stone carefully until the triger pull gets down to the point you want. If you go too far, you get to build up the trigger sear, shape it, harden it, and restart the process.

Lightening the mainspring will also lighten the trigger, but that's more advanced.

I have RB triggers done both ways, and they both work well. On my .43 RB, the trigger pull came from 12-15 lbs. to 4-5 lbs. with just the installation of the piano wire return spring.

Clarence
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
trigger stuff

The problem I have with the trigger is I stoned down the trigger nose to make it straight on my diamond lap in a special jig used for engraving tools since it was very crooked.
The trouble is in doing so, it made the trigger too short and with the reduction in weight of the trigger return spring it caused the trigger to follow into the half cock notch. I am sending the hammer to Lonestar for the installation of a "fly" and a new trigger and return spring will be sent back with it. I think this should result in a really fine pull . They also agreed to reharden the hammer also. :shock:
 

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Charles,

If a relatively light trigger return spring won't hold the trigger in the full cock notch, the angle of the trigger sear or hammer sear is wrong. They must be 90 degrees or slightly more, so all the trigger return spring is doing is to make sure the sears get together. That needs to be done first, and that is really all that needs to be done. I've seen other rollers that had this condition, and I don't want to be anywhere around when one with this condition is in use.

The trigger is supposed to fall into the half cock notch for safety if it is not pulled. Otherwise, the rifle would fire as soon as the block is closed, a VERY UNSAFE condition. A fly has no function with a single trigger and would guarantee the UNSAFE condition. PLEASE don't install the fly and put yourself in this dangerous position!

Shortening the trigger sear is a common problem, and it will definitely need to be built up and rehardened. The way to tell it is too short is if you need to hold the hammer back beyond the full cock notch to open the block.

The roller is a very simple, but safe and robust action. Don't add parts and make it unsafe!

Clarence
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
triggers and such........

Thanks Clarence, I'll make a stronger wire spring and see if this helps since I did lighten the original. I may just buy a new trigger also. Or I can swap the parts from my other rifle and see if things function correctly as a test. The "fly" was expained to me that it would lighten the pull and still be safe. If I can't solve the problem myself I will contact the fellows from Lonestar and ask again about my options. Perhaps I misunderstood them. :)
 

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Charles

If your rifle shoots 1 1/4 @ 200 yds DONT FIX A THING just do it again. Lp.
 
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