Graybeard Outdoors banner
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
651 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Decided that I could improve the wheels a bit on my half scale Napoleon. When looking at wheels for building a new cannon I noticed one place had 5/16" bolts securing the tires as an option. Then when out at the Moorpark event last weekend I saw that most every gun had the tires also bolted in place. So........

The tires on my wheels are held in place with what could best be described as "drive screws"... similar to what could be found in most any hardware store.



Easy enough to remove those screws and replace them with 1/4" bolts.





Now it is just a matter of getting out a can of black paint. Probably more structurally sound and aesthetically improved. No doubt about it, the enemy of good is better.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,043 Posts
Thats Great what a saying .....i have a question for you wheel guys . Are these wheels worthey of being bounced around ? Do they get lose or fall apart ? Can they be tightened ?

I know it sounds like a stupid qestion as they were used for centuires in wars But , it could be that there were regular PMs done ? and/ or repairs regular ?

Gary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
;D
I didn't know that the 1800's cannon wheels came with phillips head bolts, you know grader bolts (you know the ones that hold the cutters on the roadgrader blades) work real nice and come in many sizes. ;D ;D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
651 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
gary said:
;D
I didn't know that the 1800's cannon wheels came with phillips head bolts, you know grader bolts (you know the ones that hold the cutters on the roadgrader blades) work real nice and come in many sizes. ;D ;D
Yes, but common ol' Lowe's bolts fit the budget real well. As far as being a phillips head, a little JB Weld should fill that in quite well. Then a little paint and you'd never know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,286 Posts
I have at work a Swedging tool I made for making proper tire bolts with the flat head and square to keep them from rotating

it is basically a carriage bolt with a taper and flat head.


I use Carriage bolts heated red hot drop them into the swedging block and hammer in the tappered flat.

the next time I go to work I can do a quick photo tutorial if anyone wants.

M'Lady Carol is getting close to the end of her Journey, so I have been home with her.


Allen <><
[/color]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
651 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yes, would be interested in seeing that.

My deepest sympathy to you and your lady...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,440 Posts
When I made 36" wheels for my split trail gun I set the iron tires around the felloes in the following way.
First I took 3/16" X 2 1/4" iron and rolled it around the assembled wooden wheel. I cut the iron a little long so one end overlapped the other end. Then I welded a small piece of angle to each end about 3" apart and connected them together with a piece of 1/2" allthread. When I tightened the allthread the iron tire squeezed tightly around the wheel. I helped seat all the spokes and felloes by hitting around the perimeter with a mallet. When I thought everything was tight enough I drilled one hole in each felloe and inserted a 3/8" carriage bolt and tightened everything up. Then I installed a felloe splice plate on each side of the wheel and tightened all that up. Now I removed the allthread, cut off the small pieces of angle and ground everything flat. Then cut the iron tire where I had it overlapped to be exactly the right size. A carriage bolt on both sides of the splice finished it off.
So I was able to set an iron tire without heating it and get it plenty tight.
I hope all this made sense.
Zulu

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
651 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Wow Zulu... those are some serious looking wheels. Great work !!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
73 Posts
gary said:
;D
I didn't know that the 1800's cannon wheels came with phillips head bolts, you know grader bolts (you know the ones that hold the cutters on the roadgrader blades) work real nice and come in many sizes. ;D ;D
Ditto on the use of phillips head or other non-period fasteners. Not a big fan of farby hardware or designs. I have heard people say what's the difference, still looks like a cannon. I guess you could say the same thing about costume jewelry, to the average eye it looks perfectly fine, but to the trained eye it looks like, well, you know...

If it is a piece meant to be used to recreate history it should be as correct as possible in every detail. If it is a piece to take out and just have fun with, then who cares, anything goes as long as it is safe.

Anthony Variz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
73 Posts
RocklockI said:
Thats Great what a saying .....i have a question for you wheel guys . Are these wheels worthey of being bounced around ? Do they get lose or fall apart ? Can they be tightened ?

I know it sounds like a stupid qestion as they were used for centuires in wars But , it could be that there were regular PMs done ? and/ or repairs regular ?

Gary
Great question Gary. Wheel maintenance is a major concern where I live due to the extreme dry desert climate. A brand new set of properly made 57" wheels (i.e. kiln dried white oak) split, crack and shrink something awful in less than one year here. It is truly heartbreaking to see this happen so quickly after spending so much money. Some recommend occasional soaking in a big tub of thinned out linseed oil. Others simply soak their wheels in water when they get loose. Though they will tighten right up, this is a very bad idea as it will promote dry rot and is a very temporary fix at best.

I have been advised by a wheelwright friend of mine that the best long term fix is to keep the joints between the spokes, hubs, and felloes filled with a quality penetrating consolidant. I have used with great success a product called Git-Rot. It is a two part mix that pours in like a thick liquid, fills the joints, and keeps the wheels very tight. I have found that if I do this once a year the wheels will last a very long time. Another good product that is far less expensive is called Rotted Wood Hardener by H. F. Staples & Co. It is ready to use out of the bottle and pours in like milk, soaks deeply into the wood fibers, fills the gaps and cures solid.

Another important consideration is proper storage. When not in use I keep my carriages in a large barn covered and out of the direct sun and rain. The only time my carriages have been wet is when it rains at an event, I never just hose them off with water. Since we live fire our pieces with full spec service loads tight wheels are a must.

I should also state that the above "fix" works far better and last longer if performed before the wheels are actually loose. Keeping the joints filled and tight prevents them from being run loose and ruining the wheels before their time. If the wheels are already loose & sloppy they will probably need to be re-tired or rebuilt.

Another maintenance item is keeping the hubs & axles lubed. At the 135 GB event one of our guys had one of his Parrott wheels seize up from lack of lube when moving the piece from field to field.

Anthony Variz
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,043 Posts
Werent the hubs pieced together in many individual pieces ? and hollow for lube ?

I see some drawing and posting one one piece hubs .

Gary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,440 Posts
Gary,
laminated hubs are far stronger than one piece hubs. The ones I made in the wheels above were glued together. One piece hubs are more subject to splitting.


Once they were turned on the lathe i drilled them for an axle.
Zulu
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
73 Posts
Yes, a properly made laminate is stronger than a solid piece of wood. This requires reversing the grain direction on every other piece, using quality glue, and high clamping pressure. My carriage building friend has a huge fixture with a long row of 50 ton jacks over it for clamping the trails and wheel hubs.

Anthony Variz
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,043 Posts
So then ,they are not put together like a barrel with with hoops , I always thought they were held together by iron hoops fitted with very tightly fitting pieces of wood .

Also do they put a lube in the hubs around the axile ????

Gary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,418 Posts
Allen, thank you for the update. Do please keep us in the loop. I'll keep the both of you in my prayers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
73 Posts
RocklockI said:
So then ,they are not put together like a barrel with with hoops , I always thought they were held together by iron hoops fitted with very tightly fitting pieces of wood .

Also do they put a lube in the hubs around the axile ????

Gary
The hubs start out as a solid chunk of wood, either one piece or laminated, and lathe turned and bored out in the center to receive a cast iron boxing which is pressed into place. This cast iron boxing (or bronze in some cases) is what rides on the axle. The hub bands are supposed to help strengthen the hub, but in reality do not do much.

Anthony Variz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Zulu said:
When I made 36" wheels for my split trail gun I set the iron tires around the felloes in the following way.
First I took 3/16" X 2 1/4" iron and rolled it around the assembled wooden wheel. I cut the iron a little long so one end overlapped the other end. Then I welded a small piece of angle to each end about 3" apart and connected them together with a piece of 1/2" allthread.
Zulu,
I like this method, one of the difficulties I forsee in mounting the tire, is getting an accuate measurement of the circumfrence of the tire.

Did you build this carriage from a plan?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,440 Posts
PaulB,
I built this carriage from a picture in Round Shot and Rammers. I scaled it to my 36" barrel. Rolling flat stock around wooden felloes is a great way to set an iron tire. It works easy up to 3/16" thickness. After that it really needs to be rolled on a roller to the diameter of your wheel because it gets too stiff to work with. Then you can overlap and proceed as directed.
Zulu
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,446 Posts
Allen, it is a difficult journey you are on, but God will be guiding both you and your Lady's steps...take care and leave it in His hands.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top