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Discussion Starter #1
It seems that there are many conflicting views with Remington so let's just get them out of the way.

What are your views about Remington? Personal experiences and knowledge are preferred, as opposed to hearsay.

I will post my views later, but if this thread gets out of hand it will be gone. Thanks! :D
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Ah crap, sorry guys, I lost your replies :cry:...if ya wanna post them again I'd much appreciate it...thanks! :(
 

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I wont buy anything other than Remington when it comes to rifles or shotguns.

have had many models over the years and all far exceeded my expectations.

From mountain rifles, to varmint rifles, to shotguns, whether its for hunting or just general shooting at the range. I grew up with them and if I had to take a serious count, Id say we have "atleast" 30 to 35 models in my family right now. My one Uncle alone accounts for about 10, hes a nut!

I'm like that with anything. I like it, it works for me, I depend on it, it stays and I support that company even further. Sig for example, I carry all day, every day, and theres no way Id replace it with anything else.
well you could give me a free H&K and I'd take it :-D

By this time next year I'd like to have a total of 6 Remingtons in my safe. Life is grand aint it!?

:D
 

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I really think that Remingtoin is a victim of their own success. When I look in my gun cabinet I see seven different Remington centerfires, mostly from the 80s and early 90s, all quite accurate, all troublefree. None required action glass bedding or barrel floating to make them shoot. Remington doesn't have any problems the other manufacturers don't have, but we just expect more of them. I hope Remington can turn it around, but they seem to lack the will to be an industry pacesetter again. It seems the bottom line got in the way. Just one mans opinion. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal
 

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I won't say that I'd buy only Remingtons, but I've had good luck with the ones I have. And I have some of the ones everyone seems to enjoy bashing.

Model 710 in .30-06 - Shoots very well and hasn't failed me in any way. Certainly won't win any beauty contest, but for $299 with scope I got my money's worth for sure.

2 Model 597 .22LRs - had to do some minor magazine tweaking at first but both are 100% reliable and both are as accurate as my brother's $400 customized 10/22.

I may be different, but I expect to do a little tweaking with a new factory rifle, in fact I rather enjoy it.
 

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Of the few Remingtons I have owned they have so far been pretty good guns I usually did not keep them very long but they never gave me any grief. That being said what I can't figure out is why Remington is wasting time and money trying to break into the beef jerky market? I couldn't believe it when I saw a package of jerky at wally world with their name on it... WHY??
 

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I have two model 700s. They have been great.

For shotguns, I prefer Beretta.


Rod. :wink:
 

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I bought a new Remington LVSF in 22-250 earlier this year. I compared it to a Tikka Varmint in 22-250 before I bought it. The Remington was priced better, had a better fit/finish and had fewer plastic parts. A very easy decision in my book. MI VHNTR
 

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Krochus said:
Of the few Remingtons I have owned they have so far been pretty good guns I usually did not keep them very long but they never gave me any grief. That being said what I can't figure out is why Remington is wasting time and money trying to break into the beef jerky market? I couldn't believe it when I saw a package of jerky at wally world with their name on it... WHY??
their Jalapeno flavor is good, I bought a few bags from the website :)

anything Remington gets my support...muwhahahaha :-D
 

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Problem Remington

Last December I purchased a Mdl 700 Rem. LS 221 Rem.( 2004 Special Run ) The trigger pull was at 7 Lbs. the action only contacted the wood for about 1/4 inch at the front action screw. The locking lugs face were concave. There is a burr ? in the neck that puts a mark on the mouth of a case even after the cases are trimed at 1.395 inch. I free floated the barrel,glass bedded the action, adjusted the trigger at 3 Lbs. and had a gunsmith lapp the bolt locking lugs. Called Rem. last week . I was told to remove the trigger from the action and not to send in the stock because they were modified . I was to only send the barreled action to them to inspect the chamber. I have an old 25-06 that shoots under one inch groups after glass bedding the action and free floating the barrel. I have shoot an old 222 Rem Mdl 721 (?) that shot under one inch 100 Yd groups. I think I`ll sell the 221 Rem .
 

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I hope Remington does well..
My home area has always required Shotgun (slug) to hunt deer/bear.. but this year they open to rifles.
I went to Gander Mountain this afternoon and bought a model 7600, allweather (synthetic,stainless) pump in .308.
It was a spouse's present for my 69th (ouch) birthday.
Believe it or not, I've never owned a new Remington, although I've owned many new guns.
In fact, the only used Rem I ever owned was an old (but very nice) 513 target model...that I gave to a brother.
So, Remington fans...about this new .308 pump...will I be praising it or cussing it a year from today ?
What kind of accuracy can I expect ?

BTW..Athhough I usually used either Ithaca or NEF Trackers over the years, the Rem 870 is probably the most popular slug gun around here.
 

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I'm going to give Remington a rest for a while. Half of my 20 or so rifles are Remingtons, mostly model 700s. I've had some excellent Remingtons, but not lately. I think it's possible to get a better rifle from Sako or CZ today. I think Reington might do better to hire more machinists and gunsmiths and fewer bean counters and lawyers. Just one mans opinion. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal
 

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I have a remington classic that I like, even though the forend warped very badly and I replaced the stock with a synthetic.
I once had a remington 541T that I bought when I thought I really, really wanted a quality, good looking bolt rimfire. I was even younger and dumber and only gave it a casual inspection, it was a brand new rifle from a quality manufacturer, right? Wouldn't shoot well for anything, finally looked the bore over well and found the last two inches to have horrible tooling marks. The guy I bought if from couldn't do anything for me of course, so I chopped off those last two inches but it still wouldn't shoot better than my stock 10/22. Ended up getting rid of it.
Most of you already know this, but for other newbies out there, always give a firearm a thorough inspection, no matter who you are buying it from or who made it.[/u][/b]
 

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I have noticed lately that the stainless rifles are showing scuff marks.
Not all of them show scuff marks, and it is probably just a matter of how much each dealer cares to keep his wares and business dealings problem-free.
There is nothing to indicate that the marks are from the packaging or from shipping, so it leads me to believe that it is a condition that is factory induced.
I have never, never, never seen any new blued rifle of any brand with anything that nearly resembles some of these blemishes.
I have some rather old rifles that get regular use, and none of them show any mars that these new stainless rifles are being pushed out the door with.
One that I happened to examine even had what resembled punch marks about 2/3 up the barrel.
Defective barrel stock?
Rough handling during assembly?
Who knows?
Regardless, it should have been caught before ever being shipped out of the factory, and the dealer should have rejected it.
Who knows the dealings that go on without our knowledge, and they do need to find buyers for all of them.

I'm thinking the cause might be since stainless has a reputation for durability, the components might not get the same TLC as necessary to keep the blued rifles blemish-free.
I really wonder what might be revealed if that super-protective factory finish could be lifted?
Maybe some buyers just don't give it much thought, or they get a nice discount???
This may explain why the factory just returns so many of them to their disappointed owners as being acceptable.
They know they will find a buyer.
If so, it just causes the factory quality control to be less responsive in controlling the quality of the rifles being sent out, and in turn, then the distributers are less likely to make sure each rifle being delivered is blemish-free.
This can cause a domino effect that will just continue to get worse.
In any case, if they want to keep a market available for themselves, then appearances should be at least up to standard.
I would think that potential buyers would begin seeing the benefits of another brand that demonstrate better attention to detail.
And for some, even an expensive custom rifle is still an option that may be worth pursuing.
In fact, the custom shops might just provide the best bargain over the long haul.
 

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I wouldn't hesitate buying a Remington rifle or shotgun.While others have had horry stories...mine is just the opposite....the C/S staff went the extra mile and made an ill fitting trap stock on a 1100 trap gun fit me perfectly by exchanging it with another after using it for a week...Total cost $20.00 shipping...what I got back was 3 grades higher burled walnut...so...for me...they do a good job and are very pleasent people to speak to on the phone.

Mac
 

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This is just one mans opinion, but there was a time not too long ago when Remington was very involved in benchrest shooting. The very best benchrest scopes and bullets were also put out by Remington. Some of the better benchrest shooters were Remington employees. When I purchased my 40XBBR in .222Rem. it had a sample target in the box. They weren't allowed to leave the plant unless they shot under .4". I still have half a dozen very accurate rifles in my gun cabinet, all Remingtons, all from the '80s. Remington was something to be proud of. Where are most of the gunsmiths and machinists? Why, they're been retired. What have they been replaced by? How about bean counters and lawyers? I guess that should tell us something. My last three new Remington rfles have all required glass bedding, barrel floating and trigger work, $250. to shoot close to those earlier Remington rifles. My newest one, a model 700BDL in .25-06Rem. after this treatment still groups around 1 1/3" (5 at 100yds.) if I'm lucky. If I return it to Remington they'll tell me that's acceptable accuracy. From a man with many Remingtons I can tell you, it is not acceptable, not even close. At one point you could say Remington might have been a victim of its earlier successes, but not now. The employees who were there and made a differences are no longer there. The management is only concerned with the bottom line, and their own perks. If they no longer care about me then why should I care about them. It's sad but afterall, "that is the real bottom line!" Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal
 

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Patti Longmire / Associated Press

Lloyd Woods, at home with daughter Mechelle Magruder, was unloading his Remington 700 rifle after a hunting trip, when a design flaw caused it to unintentionally fire. The bullet ripped through Woods' leg, which had to be amputated.


Flawed Guns: Public at Risk

Faulty Remington rifles shatter lives

Preventable defect hurts, maims more than 100

By Melvin Claxton / The Detroit News


Lloyd Woods is a Vietnam veteran and longtime hunter who has spent much of his life handling and using guns.

But when he bought a used Remington 700 bolt action hunting rifle in 1988, he had no way of knowing that the sleek, carefully finished exterior hid a dangerous design flaw — a defect that has injured more than a hundred people.

The series of small, metal parts that control the gun’s firing mechanism were prone to failure, making the rifle accidentally discharge without the trigger being pulled.

Remington Arms Co. officials knew of this problem in some rifles as early as 1947, but for decades failed to fix the firing mechanism or warn customers of the danger.

The problem, the company’s own records show, could have been fixed for 32 cents a rifle.

On Nov. 12, 1996, the 56-year-old Woods killed a deer near his Kentucky home during an afternoon hunt. He got down from his tree stand and began unloading the rifle in preparation for putting it away in a gun holder in the back of his pickup truck.

The Remington 700’s design required that the gun’s safety, a device that keeps the rifle from firing, be turned off in order to unlock the bolt and remove the bullets. But Woods said when he moved the safety to off, the gun fired without the trigger being pulled.

The bullet, fired with enough force to kill a deer more than 1,000 feet away, tore through the muscle and shattered the bones of Wood’s right leg. Doctors fought to save the leg, but days later amputated it just below the knee.

It was far from an isolated incident. Since the 1970s, more than a hundred people — mainly hunters — have been injured, maimed or killed when their Remington rifles accidentally fired without the trigger being pulled.

Missouri attorney Richard Miller, who estimates he has handled about 100 cases against Remington, said the firearm manufacturer’s own records show it has received more than 1,500 complaints of unintentional discharges involving the 700 rifle.


Remington recall

Many Remington rifles made before 1982 require the user to turn the manual safety off before opening the bolt to unload the weapon. But turning the saftety off has caused hundreds of these guns to discharge without the trigger being pulled. The company is recalling the rifles.


Accidental firing
In order to open the bolt to unload the rifle, the shooter must disengage the safety. If parts are worn or out of adjustment, it is possible for the trigger mechanism to engage.
If the shooter pulls the trigger or moves the bolt handle while the safety is on, the mechanism may become preloaded. As the safety or bolt handle is moved slightly, the gun may accidently go off.
Remington recalls
700, 721, 722, 40X and 600 series reifles made before 1982, because of a potential for the guns to accidentally fire.
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Remington rejects taking action on injury reports

Seventeen years before Woods was injured, Remington officials debated recalling the rifle after reports of accidental shootings and injuries.

The company, owned at the time by chemical giant DuPont, decided against the recall because officials estimated only 20,000 of the rifles were prone to fire without the trigger being pulled when the safety was pushed to off.

"That would mean the recall would have to gather 2 million guns just to find 20,000 that are susceptible to this condition," the company’s subcommittee on safety explained in a Jan. 2, 1979, report on why it didn’t recommend recalling the rifle.

The committee gave another reason for its decision: "An attempt to recall all bolt action rifles would undercut the message we plan to communicate to the public concerning proper gun handling. It would indicate that the answer to accidental discharge can be found entirely within the gun, when in reality only proper gun handling can eliminate injuries resulting from such occurrences."

The safety committee insisted the problem wasn’t confined to Remington rifles, but that a "large percentage" of its competitors made rifles with a similar problem.

Instead of a recall, the committee recommended "an informational warning concerning accidental firing and safe gun handling be prepared and effectively communicated to the gun handling public."

The recommendations were approved by the company’s president, Remington records show.

Because no federal agency has the power to recall defective guns or even investigate complaints of malfunctions, Remington’s decision went unchallenged.

Attorney Miller said the gun maker not only ignored the problem, but also seriously understated it.

"Every Remington 700 has the potential to accidentally discharge," Miller said. "The problem is that the trigger connect is unreliable. It is the same mechanism in 100 percent of the rifles."

Remington, under new ownership since it was sold by DuPont for $300 million in 1993, insists that modifications in the 1982 rifles — which allow them to be unloaded with the safety on — have ended the problem. And they say an ongoing recall of pre-1982 rifles, initiated last year, is addressing the problem with older rifles.

Miller praised Remington’s new owners for addressing a problem they inherited. He said the ability to unload the weapon while the safety is on significantly lessens the chance of an accidental discharge.

Firing mechanism issue first surfaced in 1947

Problems with the firing mechanism in Remington guns first surfaced in the company’s model 721 rifles, a precursor of the 700.

On April 9, 1947, Remington test engineer Wayne Leek warned company officials of a malfunction in the 721 rifles that was "very dangerous from safety and functional point of view."

Among the problems Leek cited in a memo was the possibility of firing the gun "by pushing the safety to the ‘off’ position."

A Remington product safety subcommittee memo from 1956 acknowledged the ongoing problem: "A major stumbling block has developed in the safety design, which is considered inadequate in the Models 721 and 722."

But Remington issued no warnings and continued manufacturing rifles with the same firing assembly.

In 1962, the gun maker introduced two new rifles, the Mohawk 600 and the Remington 700. The firing mechanism in both guns, while slightly modified, was essentially the same as earlier Remington rifles, experts say.

Soon, old problems resurfaced.

A 1975 Remington internal quality audit found that at least half of the 200,000 Mohawks could potentially fire when the safety was moved to the off position.

But Remington’s product safety subcommittee met several times on the matter and concluded "the situation did not present a safety problem," company records show.

Meanwhile, people were getting hurt.

John Coates, an attorney, was one of them. Coates was shot in his Jeep on the way back from a hunting trip with his son and a friend, a local judge.

His son, sitting in the back seat, turned the safety off to unload the rifle when it fired, hitting Coates. He was left paralyzed and Remington settled the case for $6.3 million in 1977, although some company officials insisted human error, not the gun, was to blame.

The media attention generated by the case forced the company to do something it had tried very hard to avoid. Remington recalled the Mohawk 600 months after settling with Coates.

"Once the allegations of the case became public and the settlement given publicity, Remington had no other choice, regardless of our belief as to (the) cause of the Coates accident, but to recall the Mohawk 600," Remington associate counsel R.B. Sperling stated in a 1978 memo to a DuPont financial department executive.

Remington made no improvements to the 700 rifle, despite complaints similar to those about the Mohawk 600.

On June 23, 1981, a Remington field service specialist, Fred Martin, wrote to his boss pointing out that for 32 cents a gun, the company could fix the rifle so it could be unloaded with the safety on. Included in that price was an additional safety feature that prevented the trigger from moving once the safety was in place.

Martin urged the company "not to pass up this opportunity to improve our fire control."

In 1982, Remington modified the 700 by removing the bolt lock, allowing the gun to be unloaded with the safety on. But the company made little change in the firing mechanism.

It also made no move to recall earlier 700s or warn rifle owners of the danger. In fact, after removing the bolt lock, Remington told customers who asked about the change that the alterations were "based on the results of an independent marketing survey in which a greater percentage of the shooters preferred the capability of opening the bolt with the safety on."

Injuries continued to mount.

In 1985, Remington paid $1.5 million to a New York man who lost a leg after his 700 accidentally discharged.

Three years later, the company paid $800,000 to an Alaska hunter who was shot in a similar incident.

Family forces recall after boy’s shooting

In 1994, a Texas jury awarded Glenn Collins $17 million after his foot was blown off when his 700 accidentally fired as he moved the safety. Collins later settled for a lesser, undisclosed amount.

Despite its legal losses, and what lawyers suing the company described as an increased willingness by the new owners to settle cases, Remington would not publicly admit to a problem in its best-selling 700 rifles.

Then, 9-year-old Gus Barber of Montana was killed on Oct. 23, 2000.

His mother, Barbara Barber, moved the safety while unloading her 700 rifle when the gun accidentally fired without the trigger being pulled. The bullet traveled through a horse trailer several hundred feet away, hitting Gus in the stomach and arm. He died shortly after being rushed to the hospital.

Richard Barber, Gus’ father, and other family members began a crusade to have the gun recalled. After a series of television appearances and newspaper stories, they convinced Remington to recall its problem rifles, starting in March 2002.

The recall affects the 700, 721, 722, 40X and 600 series rifles made before 1982 — more than 2.5 million rifles.
 

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http://www.african-hunter.com/lessons_learned.htm
Remington 700. The 700 may be a very fine hunting rifle. I don’t know because I’ve never used one, but I do know that it is a piss poor dangerous game rifle especially in .416 Rem calibre. Apart from the odd inexplicable misfire, a broken extractor cost us an elephant wounded and lost at Rifa. This is not the first year that I’ve seen a broken extractor on a Remington 700 in .416 either. In addition they are just about the hardest rifle to refill the magazine in a hurry. My memories this year of students and candidates using them is that of youngsters frantically trying to thrust cartridges into the mag, only to have a double feed, the rounds pop straight back out or many other problems. A two round reload took on average, twice as long with the Model 700's as it did with just about any other make of rifle. The difference between the Remington and the Weatherby is that the latter can be downloaded a little so as to operate flawlessly and the safety fixed, whilst I do not know that anything can be done with the Remingtons except to re-barrel them to a plains game cartridge and leave them at home when out after the dangerous stuff. To be fair though, all of the extraction problems seem to be confined to rifles in .416 and .375. and they seem reasonably reliable in .458 provided you are prepared to tolerate the awkwardness of the reload. I am not. A good single shot or even a Weatherby is a better choice.
Don Heath oversees the Zimbabwe Professional Exam, the most demanding test of professional hunter/guide services in the world.
 
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