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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys, you probably know by now my favorite 45-70 load is a Hornady half jacket 350 grain FP ahead of 28.0 grains of 2400. That said, a few years ago I picked up a bunch of lead Postell design HP bullets (w/no gas checks and already lubed) with hopes of getting them to shoot with smokeless powder. That was not to happen, even keeping velocity down to reduce chances of leading I finally gave up after many tries but NO accuracy. Fast forward to a month or so ago, I thought about them again and picked up a can of Trailboss to try.
Tonight I weighed the bullets and was shocked, they go from 404 to 417 grains! I got them from another shooter and do not remember who for sure. I went through them and weighed each one and have them grouped into packages by the 1/10th of a grain. I then measured them and came up with somewhere between .457 and .458, I had hopes for .459 but they are what I have.
Any suggestions out there for a load of trailboss that might give me passable accuracy with thse bullets?...Thanks....<><.... :)
 

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Re: Trailboss w/lead bullet for my 45-70...?

Andy, Try loading the Trail Boss to a level about 1/16 to 1/8" below where the bottom of the seated bullet is. I am experimenting with something similar and in my case thats where the accuracy really came together. Jedman
 

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Re: Trailboss w/lead bullet for my 45-70...?

I get great accuracy from a Lyman 330gr cast HP and 11gr of TB. From my 28" barrel, velocity is right at 1000fps. I killed a starling with it at 65yds last year and a few raccoons expired from that same load too. ;)




http://www.imrpowder.com/data/rifle/trailboss-oct2005.php




Thanks, Dinny
 

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Re: Trailboss w/lead bullet for my 45-70...?

12 gr. of trail boss worked well for us with a 405 gr cast bullet. You could shoot it all day long and they were accurate in our Handis. Diameter will determine if they will shoot for you or not. Good luck they are fun. I thought they could cleanly take a deer out to 100 yds but this was just my thought we never tried it, but it was so accurate- I figured with proper placement it would punch right through both sides of the ribs on a broadside shot.
Have fun! The 45-70 is one of the most versatile handis once you learn how to use trailboss (along with your other full strength loads you already use).
thejanitor
 

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Re: Trailboss w/lead bullet for my 45-70...?

i have been shooting the lee 405 grn bullet 17 grns trail boss shoots good very little recoil i could shoot these all day.fun load
 

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Re: Trailboss w/lead bullet for my 45-70...?

I to have loaded 45-70s with 12 grains of Trail Boss as thejanitor has. All though I shot it out of my T/C Encore
it shot great. That old 405 sure makes a wack when it hits the backstop. And I always figured it would knock a
deer done within a 100 yards. Great load.

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: Trailboss w/lead bullet for my 45-70...?

Thanks for all the great info and loads guys. My load of 28 grains of 2400 behind a Hornady 350 grain bullet is very accurate and actually quite comfortable to shoot. I try to avoid max loadings in almost everything because it seems to me that the most accurate load is USUALLY less than the max load.....<><....:)
 

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Re: Trailboss w/lead bullet for my 45-70...?

I shoot 12.5 grains of Trail Boss with the 405's in my Contender. Very accurate and mild recoil. Trail Boss works well in every caliber that I reload - 45 Colt, 45-70, 38 Special and 32 H&R Magnum.
 

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Re: Trailboss w/lead bullet for my 45-70...?

VT30-30 said:
I to have loaded 45-70s with 12 grains of Trail Boss as thejanitor has. All though I shot it out of my T/C Encore
it shot great. That old 405 sure makes a wack when it hits the backstop. And I always figured it would knock a
deer done within a 100 yards. Great load.

Steve
I've given this some thought also, and it seems there is very little discussion about using TB for any kind of serious big game load.

Reason being because even with a full case in the 45-70 and a 400 grain bullet traveling 1000+ fps it would surely do the job with shot placement at close range, but it still would only be a very marginal deer load, and when you have other powders that will shoot at a higher velocity and be pretty much as mild on the recoil as a full load of TB, it's not hard to figure out why it's not even considered a serious hunting load powder.

Plinking and small game, but definately not a deer load.
 

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Re: Trailboss w/lead bullet for my 45-70...?

Jimbo,
I too have thought long and hard about it. Here's my rational....What weight bullet and muzzle velocity did the early pioneers of our country kill all those bison with? I would think that bison are harder to kill than deer and 1100fps would work great.


405 at 1200-1500fps from a 45-70


http://www.chuckhawks.com/buffalo_cartridges.htm




Thanks, Dinny
 

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Re: Trailboss w/lead bullet for my 45-70...?

I'm not disputing it, but just pointing out that there isn't much written about taking deer with TB powder, and what is the most you can pack into a 45-70 case using a 405 grain cast bullet? You are limited to a low end of velocity, and you won't get 1500 fps with a 405 grain bullet using TB, where even using black powder you can achieve a higher velocity than with TB.

Why isn't it not used that much for taking deer?....I can only speculate, and that is because there are better choices, and bumping it up to 1500 fps with another powder that recoils like black powder loads it just makes more sense.

That said, I load with TB powder, but I also use IMR 4198 and RL7.
I hunt with the later and plink with the TB, and my loads run from 1200 to just under 1500 fps. I don't like a lot of recoil.

I have shot two fairly large hogs, not with the 45-70 but another 30 caliber rifle using TB and never found either hog. Probably just me, but I don't lose any using my standard loads.
 

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Re: Trailboss w/lead bullet for my 45-70...?

I haven't seen any deer large enough that would be alive after a boiler room hit with a 405 going 1000 fps at 100 yards or less. I do agree that using a different powder is better only in the respect that you'll get a flatter trajectory.
 

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Re: Trailboss w/lead bullet for my 45-70...?

-Dinny said:
Jimbo,
I too have thought long and hard about it. Here's my rational....What weight bullet and muzzle velocity did the early pioneers of our country kill all those bison with? ........................




Weren't those bullets paper patched? Is so that was a much softer lead that would expand rather then the hard cast we use today.
 

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Re: Trailboss w/lead bullet for my 45-70...?

Anyone wanting to post up pictures of their deer taken using Trail Boss powder giving distance and load data, I'd be interested in seeing.

I'm sure someone will do it just to prove the point, but like I said, why use it when you have better choices?
 

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Re: Trailboss w/lead bullet for my 45-70...?

Jimbo47 said:
Anyone wanting to post up pictures of their deer taken using Trail Boss powder giving distance and load data, I'd be interested in seeing.
I'm sure someone will do it just to prove the point, but like I said, why use it when you have better choices?

I knew it was gonna come down to this. ;) Now I'm gonna have to pay that $25 for a rifle deer tag. :D 45-70 with 11gr of TB behind a 330gr Lyman cast HP. I can show pics of raccoons right now, but that's just not the same. ;D ;D


Deer hunting is limited here since I'm an outsider, but I'll try to find somewhere to get a shot off at one.




Thanks, Dinny
 

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Re: Trailboss w/lead bullet for my 45-70...?

I'll be using 14.0 TB under a 300 grain hard cast this year, I'll let you know how it works out if I get a shot on a deer.
 

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Re: Trailboss w/lead bullet for my 45-70...?

Jimbo47 said:
VT30-30 said:
I to have loaded 45-70s with 12 grains of Trail Boss as thejanitor has. All though I shot it out of my T/C Encore
it shot great. That old 405 sure makes a wack when it hits the backstop. And I always figured it would knock a
deer done within a 100 yards. Great load.

Steve
I've given this some thought also, and it seems there is very little discussion about using TB for any kind of serious big game load.

Reason being because even with a full case in the 45-70 and a 400 grain bullet traveling 1000+ fps it would surely do the job with shot placement at close range, but it still would only be a very marginal deer load, and when you have other powders that will shoot at a higher velocity and be pretty much as mild on the recoil as a full load of TB, it's not hard to figure out why it's not even considered a serious hunting load powder.

Plinking and small game, but definately not a deer load.



A case full of Trail Boss and a 400gr. bullet will kill the **** out of any deer that walks. Ballistics numbers in some book don't mean a thing in the real world. ;)



Spanky
 

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Re: Trailboss w/lead bullet for my 45-70...?

I second that, Spanky!
I made BP loads and chrono'd then against my full case of TB load; They are within 50fps of each other (average of 3 shots each). We have better stuff to use now? Might as well forget the old outdated 45-70 and go straight to the 30-06 then. I have both, and if I get a deer this year it will be with that 45-70 case full of TB, and the load wont be lacking.
H&R 45-70 UH now with Cin.lam. UV wood and an old El Paso Weaver 2.5X with the range reticule ;D .
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Re: Trailboss w/lead bullet for my 45-70...?

Great stuff guys, excellent info and discussions. I hold to the theory that deer, bear, and buffalo (Bison) have not gotten any tougher over the last 100-150 years or so. I also believe a 45-70 loaded with a nice lead bullet ahead of either BP, one of it's equivilants, or TB will knock a deer just flat down dead with a good hit. I have always subscribed to less recoil and better shot placement. I disagree with the belief of some that a bigger faster magnum will make up for poor shot placement. I personally think a good TB load would be a fine deer getter for the thick woods where I hunt where 100 yards is a long shot....<><....:)
 

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Re: Trailboss w/lead bullet for my 45-70...?

-Dinny said:
I get great accuracy from a Lyman 330gr cast HP and 11gr of TB. From my 28" barrel, velocity is right at 1000fps. I killed a starling with it at 65yds last year and a few raccoons expired from that same load too. ;)



http://www.imrpowder.com/data/rifle/trailboss-oct2005.php




Thanks, Dinny
Now that's the most over-calliber kill I have ever heard of. I usually use an airgun on starlings! Did you have the remains mounted?
Where did you get the Hornady half-jackets from? I need some.
 
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