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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On another thread on this forum I speculated that a lot of evil in this world was inspired by religious fanatics that had the ultimate goal of power in mind as the final result. These fanatics hide behind religion. I cited the Mullah's and Ayatolla's that recruit youngsters in the formative years in a culture with no education except 'religious' education. I cited the Spanish inquisition. I cited 'witch' burnings and hangings in this country. I cited all the evil that man has promulgated in the name of religion.
As a result I am challenged by folks that encourage me to 'read the Bible'. I wonder if these same folks even know who or how our Bible was written or when.
A 14 year old in Syria being groomed as a suicide bomber by his Mullah has the same kind of blind faith. My God gave me the sense to reason. That is what separates me from the animals. I have actually read the Bible, Old Testament and New. Not only is it a pretty good lesson guide as to how to live one's life but it is a good historical document also. No....I do not believe every story as factual therein but as allegories they are pretty good.
I suppose that there are still folk's that handle snakes and speak in tongues....I do not. I am very content in my beliefs and feel sorry for those that can't formulate their own beliefs without someone telling them what to believe. Read Hebrews 11: 1-40.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm not really working on any angle or anything with ulterior motives. I am just saying that religion has been used thru the ages as an excuse for excessive power. Who were the actual judges that comdemmed Jesus to the cross and what were their motives?
I don't think blind faith is a good thing. Look at the motives behind who is preaching what. We all have our innermost core of belief and some today have no belief. So be it. No angles...no ulterior motives....just a belief in One Power and that temporal power can be twisted by turning it into religious issue.
 

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As a result I am challenged by folks that encourage me to 'read the Bible'. I wonder if these same folks even know who or how our Bible was written or when.
Its an Angle!

Trying to blame the worlds problems on religion is like blaming gun deaths on Guns!

You guys are going to have to decide if its people or objects that are the problem.

I have read the Bible and know who wrote it and what it means( as best as my feeble mind can determine) , therefore I don't blame God for the problems mans sin has propagated here on earth.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Please share with the rest of us who wrote the Bible, who edited it and chose what books to include and which books not to include. I am not blaming the Bible on anything....I am blaming man's twisting the concept's therein.
 

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Sid, the who and when of some 5,000 years of scripture writing has been repeatedly covered on this board. Ditto, the how and why the 66 books were chosen for inclusion in the canon of the Bible has likewise been well covered. Together, they are quite lengthy. In fact there are hundreds of modern books that cover those topics, find one and read it. We are not writers, it's a bit much for you to ask us to repeat it all for you in three or four paragraphs.

I, for one, doubt it would make a dent in what you already "know" even if we tried. For instance, you wrongly already "know" our faith is blind; it is not, but how is anyone going to convince you of that fact, what would you accept as proof - if anything? Christianity is neither a myth or a philosophy, it can't be matched by any other faith.

We try very hard to assist well meaning seekers but we would be spinning our wheels to even try to show you anything, you already know all you want to know. Not many of us are into futile efforts. So, sadly, "Them's the conditions that prevail" and I won't play your game by your rules. (Titus 3:9-10) IF you have a specific question, maybe, but not the unfocused smear against religion you posted.

I've seen no one suggest you "read a Bible" but perhaps it would be good if you did. Nor has anyone challenged your allegations of a historical misuse of religion. I only asked if you really think it's unique to the God of the Bible or if atheists and other religions are also guilty of mayhem but, so far, you've not answered; are you nervous?
 

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Sid said:

On another thread on this forum I speculated that a lot of evil in this world was inspired by religious fanatics that had the ultimate goal of power in mind as the final result. These fanatics hide behind religion. I cited the Mullah's and Ayatolla's that recruit youngsters in the formative years in a culture with no education except 'religious' education. I cited the Spanish inquisition. I cited 'witch' burnings and hangings in this country. I cited all the evil that man has promulgated in the name of religion.


Yup. All of those things happen/happened.

However, people also pervert political/economic power to control populations. Throughout history, and more often than not, governments that started out as benevolent have degraded to the point where citizens become downtrodden subjects.

Political/social ideology, economics, and yes, religion are today and have always been used by evil men to subjugate and control others. Why? because they can, and because men are basically evil.

I suppose that there are still folk's that handle snakes and speak in tongues....I do not.
Yes, people in a few churches still handle snakes as part of their services. It's good that you do not.

I am very content in my beliefs...
Most people are content in their beliefs; even those who believe that chopping others' heads off is the right thing to do.


....and feel sorry for those that can't formulate their own beliefs without someone telling them what to believe. Read Hebrews 11: 1-40.
Nobody has ever formulated their beliefs in a vacuum. Don't feel sorry for anyone who has listened to others in coming to accept a particular world view; you have done much the same as anyone else in history.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
V-3
You are correct. It is our society and culture that we are brought up in that initially shapes our thinking. As I get older and see the whole world I am finding I am able to divorce myself "popular" ideas that are shoved down our throats by the media and politicians. I can see simpler beliefs are often the truest. Look at a blade of grass or a mountain and tell me there is not a Creator. My whole point of my last threads is that it is shame that man has tried to twist truth into his own quest for power over others. Yes, mohammed or abdul, of whover cuts of heads thinks he is doing the right thing. That still does not make it a good or true thing.
Yes, people pervert political systems (look where we are today) and economic systems. People = Men. This is going on big time today with all the athiest trying to divorce this country from God. I don't think He will let that happen.
 

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Sid said:

V-3
You are correct. It is our society and culture that we are brought up in that initially shapes our thinking. As I get older and see the whole world I am finding I am able to divorce myself "popular" ideas that are shoved down our throats by the media and politicians. I can see simpler beliefs are often the truest. Look at a blade of grass or a mountain and tell me there is not a Creator.


I could have easily written the above myself; we are in agreement. My belief in The Gospel is dead simple and easy for me to understand. I'd add "Most religious leaders" to your media and politicians...

"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."

My whole point of my last threads is that it is shame that man has tried to twist truth into his own quest for power over others. Yes, mohammed or abdul, of whover cuts of heads thinks he is doing the right thing. That still does not make it a good or true thing.
It is a shame. But it's no surprise to the student of secular and/or religious history. The Bible is replete with passages that describe such things.

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean."

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel."
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence."

Yes, people pervert political systems (look where we are today) and economic systems. People = Men. This is going on big time today with all the athiest trying to divorce this country from God. I don't think He will let that happen.
I'll have to disagree with you there. God is allowing it to happen, all over the World. I believe that we are living in the time of The Great Apostasy...

"At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

It's of the utmost importance to anyone who calls himself a Christian to clearly understand what Jesus is saying regarding "the one who stands firm."

To the non-Christian, the passage will most likely be discarded as meaningless, at least to him personally. It simply doesn't apply to him.
 

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Faith is not an "outward form" it is a relationship with the living G-d through the only begotten Son.
The Bible is not just a book, it is the Word of G-d, reading it without asking Him to reveal His truth misses the purpose.
There are not several different kingdoms, there is the kingdom of light and the kingdom of darkness.
Islam wars against the kingdom of G-d, against the Chosen People and those who are grafted in. Satan knows his time is short and he strikes out now to deceive and destroy
as many as possible before his demise, his fate is sealed.
One can read the Bible every day and not be in relationship with the Creator, one can go to church every Sunday and never "know" Him.
 

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Sid;
Wnnchester made it very clear when he said:

" Sid, the who and when of some 5,000 years of scripture writing has been repeatedly covered on this board. Ditto, the how and why the 66 books were chosen for inclusion in the canon of the Bible has likewise been well covered. Together, they are quite lengthy. In fact there are hundreds of modern books that cover those topics, find one and read it. We are not writers, it's a bit much for you to ask us to repeat it all for you in three or four paragraphs."
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Yes, over the years, some unscrupulous people have used religion as an excuse to start wars. ...But of course, they have also used anti-religion, tribalism, politics, family ties, prejudice, anti semitism, lebensraum (living room) and a hundred other excuses...so what else is new ?

You accuse the guys here of not knowing the origin, collection of and basics of how the Bible came to be. I say many here are well aware of the facts surrounding the scriptures; stick around and you will likely hear about the roots of scripture all over again... give it time.
 
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