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Discussion Starter #1
I don't have alot of money to put into a hunting rifle. So I went to the local walmart and I have narrowed it down to two rifles. The wall mart weatherby with wood stock no sights and in 300 (not sure if 300 weatherby or winchester. The tag just said "weatherby magnum .300). Or the remington 700adl with laminated stock in 30-06. The remington is $430.00 and has iron sights, and the weatherby is $470.00. I only shoot iron sights for hunting. I go after hogs, deer, black bear, and when I get the chance elk and mulies. I just joined the air force and will be hunting new and exciting places. So which rifle is the best for my buck? The remington that I don't have to do anything to but sight it in and get a sling, or the weatherby with a more potent round and pay to have sights put on it? Is the weatherby that much better of a rifle to make up for the money difference?
 

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Acutally, it's not really a Weatherby. Yes, it says weatherby, but it is made for Weatherby by a company called Howa. Weatherby just puts their name on it.

Is there any particular reason why you only plan on using iron sights? Granted, some people can use them quite accurately in military rifles, but I don't think that most of these factory rifles' iron sights are the best out there.

As for rifles, if it is a choice between those two, then I would opt for the Remington. First of all, I trust M700 actions. I should know - I own about 8 of them. Second, you stated that the rifle has a laminated stock. I prefer laminated stocks over traditional non-laminated stocks because they are less susceptible to warping due to temperature and mositure. I must admit that I didn't know that Remington offered the ADL with a laminated stock. Maybe it's a special Wal-Mart thing.

I don't think that Howa rifles are bad. Actually, I think that, for the money, they are a good value. It's just that I prefer the Remington M700 over the Howa any day.

As for the cartridge, I would opt for the .30-06 over the .300 Weatherby (and it is a weatherby mag, not a winchester mag.) It will kill everything you listed and then some. Plus, the ammo should be available just about everywhere, while .300 Weatherby mag ammo won't. Also, the .30-06 will be less expensive than than .300 Weatherby mag ammo - so you should consider this in the cost of the rifle over both the long and short term. In addition, the .300 Weatherby will kick substantially more than the .30-06.

I also suggest that you get a scope. Given that you like to use open sights (and I think that they are great for close shooting like hogs as you mentioned) you should look into quick detachable scope mounts. This way, you can use your scope for longer shots, and take the scope off and use your iron sights for closer shots. Quick detachable scope mounts will cost you a bit more than fixed scope mounts, but they are worth it.

As for a scope, keeping in mind that you are price conscious, I recommend a Bushnell Elite 3200 in a 3x-9x-40mm. It's a great scope for the money, and your intended purposes.

Zachary
 

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I have owned and shot several Howa 1500's, which is produced as the Weatherby "Vanguard". Never used a Vanguard, but a good hunting friend bought one in .300 Weatherby for elk hunting with Federal Primier loads with 200 grain Nosler Partitions and he loves it. Put a Leupold 4x12 scope on it and it's very accurate. Kicks like **** though.

Notwithstanding my high opinion of the Vanguard/Howa, I too would advise you to go with the Remington 30-06 with the laminated stock. Remingtons are on the average reputed to be the most accurate factory rifles, the laminated stock will serve you ver faithfully as will the 30-06. There are ton of accessories and after market stuff for the Remington if you want to customize it in some manner. It is kind of the standard by which most others are judged.

The .300 Weatherby is too much of a good thing for most of the people who use them, frankly. It kicks like ****, is verrrrry LOUD and ammo is expensive when you can find it. I"ve known several guys who couldn't live without them until they got one. Most were quietly traded off or sold and they went back to their former rifles.

30-06 ammo, is cheap and available everywhere and there are some great factory loads with premium bullets (i.e. Noslers, Swift A-Frames, Trophy Bonded) that will fill every conceivable need. Sounds like you're more of a hunter than purely a shooter and that you're primarily into factory ammo. For the difference in ammo cost, you can shoot the 30-06 three times as much.

My advice: Get the Remington 30-06.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks guys.

Zachary, I mainly shoot open sights because that's what I have confidence in. I've shot scopes before, but open sights are just as good for me. If it's too far for me to kill with open sights, then it's just too far. I'm no sniper or expert or anything, but I just like all the advantages of open sights.

That being said, since I will get to hunt new places, a scope isn't a bad idea. I'd hate to have to pass up a big mulie at 250 yards because of low light. With the quick detach mounts, do they hold a zero after you detach them and put it back on? I was thinking more along the lines of "see though" mounts but a quick detach would be better.
 

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I would never get "see through mounts." They leave the scope way to high to have a comfortable shot.

As for detachable mounts, yes, they do hold their zero, at least to within 1/4" inch or so of point of impact, and in some cases better than that. Keeping in mind that you should be able to find a factory load that produces 1" or better groups, a 1/4" difference at 250 yards will really not be that big of a deal.

Take a look at Leupold quick detachables and Warne quick detachables. Remember, I told you that they are a bit more expensive than fixed, but they ARE worth it.

Zachary
 

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One point to bring up is how the two companies compare in customer support. Frankly Remington Sucks!! The 'Weatherby' Vanguard is backed by Weatherby and they will do what it takes to make you happy. Remington could care less. If you live here in the states it is hard enough to get Remington to even answer one of your letters. E-mails, forget it they all get lost in cyber space. Phone calls, the person you want to talk to is busy and they will take your number and get back to you. They just don't tell you how many birthday's you will celebrate before they do. Ammo for the .300 Weatherby Magnum is available world wide as is the .30-06 although you most likely will find a better selection of loads for the .30-06 than the .300 Weatherby Magnum.

Zachary is right about QD(quick detachable) mounts. I have Leupold QD’s on all of my big bores and have yet to have one change POI. If you keep the power of your scope down you will have less trouble using one. It takes practice to use higher power scopes. Go with a lower power variable like the Redfield in 2-7x or 3-9x on top of the Vanguard and you should have little trouble. Lawdog
 

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I have to agree about Remington's Customer Service (or lack thereof) it has proven to be non-existent!

What I want to know is just when Weatherby started chambering the Vanguard for the 300 Weatherby? Since they were first introduced they were only available in standard cartridges and standard magnums. 7MM Rem Mag. and 300 Win. Mag. but if one desired a 300 Weatherby he had to buy the Mark 5 which is also manufactured by Howa.

I'm likely behind the times but I have yet to see one in any Weatherby chambering and would appreciate the information.

God bless and good shooting!
 

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Thanks for the input, appreciated. Went to the website only to find no listings for the Vanguard except for a RECALL on those made thru 1993. Are they still importing the Vanguard?

www.weartherby.com

Thanks again!
 

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rem vs weatherby

The Weatherby Vanguard is sold exclusively by Walmart. I bought one 2 years ago in 300wby and it is a real shoooter. Can't say much about the trigger though. About a 8 lb. pull. It'll put 3 Rem corlokt bullets into a .25 inch group @100 yards but when shooting wby factory ammo w/Nosler 180 partitions the group opens up to an inch. My .02 8)
 

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Weatherby has anounced that in 2003 they are going to open up the Vanguard to other outlets besides Wal-Mart. Alos they are going to start chambering the .300 WSM in their line of products. Lawdog
 

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Since you asked I will give you my opinion between the two rifles you mentioned. If I were building a long range very accurate rifle, I would go the 700 action in a Remington. However I don't trust the Remington safety on their rifles. They have had a lot of out of court settlements over their action firing on a loaded round........no agruments please!

The Howa with Weatherby's name on it is a cheaper route to go but I would rather look at a Savage for accuracy and dependablity of the rifle down the road. I don't know if Wally Mart sells them, but they two are cheap (don't know about the iron sights on the Savage)

My advice is to go look at the Winchester's or Ruger's which have all the things a good hunting rifle should have on them. A stock that is designed to reduce felt recoil, 3 position safety (which is a big safety plus) control feed action, a big claw extractor that is twice the size of the Remington or Howa. This is also an important factor in a hunting rifle, when hunting dangerous game animals.

I have several Remington's but they are bench guns and heavy stationary varmint rifles. My hunting rifles are All model 70 pre - 64 Winchesters with
all the important fixtures already in place. The model 70 pre - 64 action is the best hunting action on the market today and has been for years. Yes they do cost a little more money, but when it comes time to trade up, you will be glad you made the right choice and spent the EXTRA MONEY in the first. The Rifleman's Rifle!

I just checked with our Wally Mart store and the Remington ADL is selling for $376 dollars with the KEY SAFTEY feature ( A pain in the rear) and the Weatherby Vanguard model is $388 dollars.
 

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Save yourself some money and buy the Savage next to them as it will in all likely hood out shoot both of them. 100 bucks cheaper and more accurate, oh, it will have a scope on it also. I own a Savage in 7mm Rem mag and a Remington 700 Classic in 300 Win Mag. It took 18 months to get the Remington (with Leupold 2.5x10x50 Tactical) to shoot where the Savage (with low line Bushnell) would shoot out of the box. Yeah I wasted a bunch of money.
 
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