[Dee]

Alabama had iron ore and coal production and produced steel. Like Pittsburgh tho steel production left Birmingham and moved overseas long ago. Gadsden also had steel plants and that's just the local stuff I'm well aware of that was going on in my life time.

We make more cars/trucks here in Bama today than they do in Detroit I'm pretty sure. A new plant is being built at this time in Huntsville that will produce vehicles for two different manufacturers not just one.

Had the Confederacy won I don't think us and the US would have remained enemies but would have gotten along fine and would have cooperated in the world wars and might even have been reunited as one country before that.

In spite of the story told by the north who won it wasn't about slavery it was about states rights. A southern victory would have been vastly better for the entire nation longer term as states would still have rights and so would we citizens. We'd not have the ridiculously powerful federal government we now have.

It's a fact Bill. I've said many times that slavery was a sidebar.
States rights, and the price of cotton.
The South paid over 70% of all taxes paid to the federal government, while the "industrialized north" sucked up that tax money and demanded lower prices on textiles produced in the South than was the going market value.
At the present, almost 70% of all government defense contracts are held by companies in Texas.
And as stated, Alabama is building lots of marketable cars.

 

[lloyd smale]

https://www.mlive.com/auto/2015/03/these_are_the_top_10_states_fo.html Your state rates 9th on the top 10 in the us states. If they produced so much steel and had industry why couldn't they even produce the guns the confederacy needed? They had to import them. I also would brag on a states economy that is about controlled by japan and germany. I thought we beat them in the war. What are they doing making money off the hard work of americans.


Your last point is probably correct. The north has wanted to get over this since the day it was over. As to the government though remember that's where the democtratic party began and what we wouldn't have today is probably the republicans. They still live there today and proof is the blacks and liberals LIVING THERE that want to tear down anything relating to the civil war. Yup theres some support for it here too. Probalby due to the fact that THOUSANDS of blacks are here today because of the south (thanks)


Bottom line is we can speculatre and say what if but nobody really knows because the north did win the war and if they wouldn't have we would probably be speaking german today. Mercedes would have plants all over NEW GERMANY instead of just in alabama. Someone with the last name Toyota would probably be our governor today and Detroit would be the Nissan main headquarters. Or the real truth is without the North East we wouldn't have a national anthem wed be singing god save the queen. Wed all be driving around in little cracker box cars and trucks while the rich drove benzs! Kind of the way the south worked before the war. I hate that war! It still splits the nation and everyone trys to twist things to justify there side.


The REAL TRUTH is that we were played. The rich on both sides wanted to get richer and used the poor dirt famers and woodsmen to do there dirty work. Most of them didn't even know what they were fighting for. Conned into thinking the other side was going to kill there familys and take there land. When in fact the real fear was that the rich on both sides were the ones that stood to loose. NONE OF US really won that war. A few might have profited and gained power over it but only the rich. It was a loosing proposition for American from the first shot.

Alabama had iron ore and coal production and produced steel. Like Pittsburgh tho steel production left Birmingham and moved overseas long ago. Gadsden also had steel plants and that's just the local stuff I'm well aware of that was going on in my life time.

We make more cars/trucks here in Bama today than they do in Detroit I'm pretty sure. A new plant is being built at this time in Huntsville that will produce vehicles for two different manufacturers not just one.

Had the Confederacy won I don't think us and the US would have remained enemies but would have gotten along fine and would have cooperated in the world wars and might even have been reunited as one country before that.

In spite of the story told by the north who won it wasn't about slavery it was about states rights. A southern victory would have been vastly better for the entire nation longer term as states would still have rights and so would we citizens. We'd not have the ridiculously powerful federal government we now have.

 

[lloyd smale]

well one thing about alabama is they poured there hearts and souls into that war. Texas on the other hand did more talking then actual fighting. 27000 Alabaman's and over 30000 virginians died compared to texas who lost 3000. Even Michigan had over 4 times more casualties then texas. you guys are the ones the people of the South should be angry with. If states like yours and Florida would have really DONE THERE FAIR SHARE of the fighting the south likely would have won that war.

It's a fact Bill. I've said many times that slavery was a sidebar.
States rights, and the price of cotton.
The South paid over 70% of all taxes paid to the federal government, while the "industrialized north" sucked up that tax money and demanded lower prices on textiles produced in the South than was the going market value.
At the present, almost 70% of all government defense contracts are held by companies in Texas.
And as stated, Alabama is building lots of marketable cars.

 

[lloyd smale]

https://www.bing.com/search?q=what+...ax+money&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IESR3A&pc=EUPP_
well I sure isn't that way today. The entire deep south gets more money back from the government then they pay in. Got to say texas isn't one of them but then texas never was really part of the south. That would sure have to change if they were there own country! Im done with this now. As typical there just to many hard feelings that should have healed a 100 years ago. its over GET OVER IT. We have. Theres no north or south on any map theres just America!!!!!

The South paid over 70% of all taxes paid to the federal government

 

[treeslayer]

some of you get it. i have some to add here later, in short the war was about money and who controlled it. as to what if? hard to say. oh yeah, my roots go back to 1720 right here.

 

[Dee]

some of you get it. i have some to add here later, in short the war was about money and who controlled it.

And some never will. 😉

 

[mcbammer]

My 2x Greatgrand father would probably be just as dead if the south had won . Killed Sept 18 ,1863 at Chickamauga

 

[mtryder]

My 4x great Grandpa was a Private in the 67th PA infantry, fought for over 3 years in the Civil War, many battles. One spot on the battlefield in Petersburg was were his unit broke through the confederate lines. He was at Lee's surrender too!
Named his eldest son (my three times great grandpa) Ulysses.

 

[treeslayer]

And some never will. 😉

Dee, very true.


you guys wouldn't know but i am a pretty serious local history buff and genealogist. most of my study is pre civil war and right here within 4 countys in marylands eastern shore and lower delaware. what i have inadvertently come across during this research are tid bits of information that when put together, paints a very different picture of what happened than what we hear now. almost nothing happened the way we are told. i do know for a fact every thing that happened leading up to and after that war helped to ruin most every major family here financially. white and black. and yes, there is plenty of evidence of pre emancipation free blacks who seemed to have flourished and did own slaves both black and white.
on a national level, read up on what Andrew Jackson was trying to do about debt with international banks. remember that the government was insolvent at the time. period documents are the only reliable source of information. throw out anything written after the turn of the century.

 

[Dixie Dude]

The iron ore in Birmingham wasn't discovered until after the Civil War. If Birmingham steel mills had existed before the Civil War, Birmingham might have been the target for Sherman instead of Atlanta, which was the railroad hub of the Southeast. Also, with the Birmingham steel mills, the south may have had more guns and cannons, as well as plate steel for ships. The war might have lasted longer or the south would have held out and won. Many in the north by 1864 were tired of war and the dead boys they were bringing home. There were riots in New York.

Another interesting thing. Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland, and Delaware were all slave states, but didn't vote to leave the union. Had they voted to leave, that would have isolated Washington DC and it may have become the capital of the south. Crossing the Ohio river to get to the south may have been harder, as well as pushing through Missouri. It could have bought another year of war that the north was getting tired of.

I still do not believe slavery would have lasted much longer though, because steam tractors, cotton picking machines, etc, would have been cheaper than feeding, housing, and clothing 100's of slaves.

 

[treeslayer]

md and del had little choice. union troops were stationed here even before any battles broke out. interesting note, almost all fighting age men were forced to register with the union even though few ever were inducted. some did however defect and enlist in the confederate army. there is a monument here we call the talbot boys that has been a hot debate lately. i will be very surprised if it is ever taken down, the locals feel so strongly about it.
there was numerous bog iron ore operations here and all across the country, most had been out of production by the time of the civil war. the ore was low quality and no real mines of any quantity exist, still one delaware producer in the 1700s exported two hundred tons of iron bar in one year. i have to wonder, what if all those small producers had been operational.

 

[lloyd smale]

The bs flag just popped up and I had to come back one last time:tango_face_smile_bi 3000 Texans killed in that war. Now factor in that conservatively 2000 of those were very young single men and that leaves a 1000 that could be someones grandpa (if they were over a 100 themselves today) What are the chances that we have someone here that can make that claim? Considering theres 29 million people living in TX today the chances are about one in 290,000. Not very good betting odds:tango_face_wink:Then to just happen to have one that frequents this fourm on the internet probably makes it about as likely as getting struck by lightning 3 times in one day. Kind of like being low enough to go to the bar and claiming your a Navy Seal. If I was so ballsy to make a claim like that id have rock solid proof. Show me the money!!!!!! If you were from Georgia, SC NC AL ect I might buy into it but texas was barely in that war. Like I said in a previous post theres almost 4 times more chance you had a ancestor killed in that war if you were even from Michigan. Good attempt at sucking up to the people from the states that really fought for the south though. I hope im wrong and some real proof is shown to me. I don't care for the man but I never thought him to be dishonest. I would gladly apologize and eat crow on this one. But to many heros died and familys suffered to sit back and let people make false claims. False military HERO claims are as low as a guy can go.

 

[Dee]

md and del had little choice. union troops were stationed here even before any battles broke out. interesting note, almost all fighting age men were forced to register with the union even though few ever were inducted. some did however defect and enlist in the confederate army. there is a monument here we call the talbot boys that has been a hot debate lately. i will be very surprised if it is ever taken down, the locals feel so strongly about it.
there was numerous bog iron ore operations here and all across the country, most had been out of production by the time of the civil war. the ore was low quality and no real mines of any quantity exist, still one delaware producer in the 1700s exported two hundred tons of iron bar in one year. i have to wonder, what if all those small producers had been operational.

We had Union sympathizers here in Texas, and Gainesville Tx hung a bunch of'em in a period of just several days.

Just about every courthouse or town square in my general area have Confederacy monuments.

Some 24,000 Texans died in the Civil War, with thousands more fighting in it.

Sam Houston was governor at the time, and when he refused to sign on with the Confederacy, was booted out of office, and replaced.

 

[lloyd smale]

must have pulled that 24k number out of the air. Heres the truth. https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=tcR0c0RH&id=A24AA0CB44C00B99E01AFB385D0028F8716B42E5&thid=OIP.tcR0c0RHFEAbEUDgCZu6FAHaDd&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Flossincivilwar.weebly.com%2Fuploads%2F5%2F1%2F3%2F0%2F51303025%2F6023337.jpg%3F647&exph=300&expw=641&q=Civil+War+Deaths+by+State+and+Side&simid=608008863272079036&ck=6A4D0D7BB056A4827966C1644E5C4B33&selectedindex=1&ajaxhist=0&vt=0&eim=1,6,18&sim=11


These numbers don't even take into account how many died of natural causes and diseases which were rampant then. Some say a 1/3 of the people that died in that war died from disease. You wikipidia confirms that texas commited war atrocities by executing anyone that was against that war. Many times used trumped up charges or even just outright gangs of thugs murdered them. You say you wont stand for predudice but condone something like that? Even brag about it! Sam Houston was smart man and a heck of a military leader. He knew the futility in that war. Just like he knew texas couldn't survive as a country on there own and he knew the south couldn't either. Sad thing that they turned there backs on the man that MADE texas. Now tell me if it was the Cherokee indian grandfather you had that served? That would change my odds by about a 100 fold.


by the way heres what wikipidea says about texas in the war.

Some Texan military units fought in the Civil War east of the Mississippi River, but Texas was most useful for supplying soldiers and horses for Confederate forces. Texas' supply role lasted until mid-1863, after which time Union gunboats controlled the Mississippi River, making large transfers of men, horses or cattle impossible.

Fact is a high percentage of confederate Texan soldiers never left texas soil. FACT is, its texas and florida that the deep south should detest. They talked the talk but sure didn't walk the walk. They stayed home and let AL SC NC GE and a few other states do the mens work.

We had Union sympathizers here in Texas, and Gainesville Tx hung a bunch of'em in a period of just several days.

Just about every courthouse or town square in my general area have Confederacy monuments.

Some 24,000 Texans died in the Civil War, with thousands more fighting in it.

Sam Houston was governor at the time, and when he refused to sign on with the Confederacy, was booted out of office, and replaced.

 

[mtryder]

Dee, why did you pull your post about your grandpa and Antietam?

 

[dcw]

folks...as we speak

if things worsen,,,we are headed into being another Zimbabwe, Venezuela, Somalia, Yemen, Cuba or Russia.

for example: what will be one of the first things biden will do IF he is elected? GUN CONTROL. if the Second Amendment is negated...the constitution, as it now stands, will be re-written to the leftists demands, or, even worse, completely done away with and replaced with Marxs' "Manifesto".

you believe taxes are bad now...watch what happens if biden is elected! :tango_face_surprise

 

[mtryder]

What if the Biden won? Funny.
I guess anything's possible.

Hmm ... wonder whose fault it would be. North, South, East or West. . Or Northeast
.. maybe Texas. Ouhh frickin CALIFORNIA !

 

[Mule 11]

Dee, why did you pull your post about your grandpa and Antietam?

Personal attacks on your family are as low as they come. That’s why. To debase the rooster. If he can’t beat ya on a mental level he’ll attack the women and children. Heritage and everything that goes with it be damned... True POS...

 

[lloyd smale]

take a guess

Dee, why did you pull your post about your grandpa and Antietam?

 

[lloyd smale]

you cant attack something that doesn't exist. You can only call it out. Accused of a personal attack by the king of personal attacks on here.:tango_face_wink:Beat you??? that's not even a challenge. You do that work for me.

Personal attacks on your family are as low as they come. That’s why. To debase the rooster. If he can’t beat ya on a mental level he’ll attack the women and children. Heritage and everything that goes with it be damned... True POS...