I think that it would be hard to dispute that a properly loaded 44mag could EASILY stop a man faster and more reliably that any other round in the survey. :shock: It is just unlikely to have one handy when, and if, that need should ever arise. :wink:
I'll stick with my service weapon, a HK USP 40. I would prefer a fast 155gr bullet over the issued 180gr ammo, but that's regulation.
I vote for the 45ACP also. I could easily be stopped by a 5 foot 10 blond with a Porsche Boxster and an unlimited bank account. Absent that, then I will take the 45 ACP. I also have a 9 mm carry and a 357 mag and both of those have been known to increase the population in local cemetaries. But for brute force and stopping power I think the 45 ACP still gets the trophy. Now the new S&W 50 may change the thinking on this but who wants that as a carry gun!!!!
I read a real good article a few years back that listed all handgun calibers and there real, yes based on actual street use, stopping power. The article was a wealth of information, I do not have the magazine nor the name but its listed something like this. 357 mag loaded with 125gr jhp 96%. 40s&w loaded with 135 gr jhp 96%. 45 acp loaded with 230 grain hydrashock 94%. 44 mag loaded with 210 grain silvertip 90%. 10mm loaded with 175gr 90%. 9mm loaded with 124 grain86-90%. 41 mag 175gr hp 82%. 44 spl laoded with 180 gr 87%. 38spl loaded with 115hp corbon 83% or 158 gr hp 78%. The list went on all the way down to the lone little 22 lr stinger at a suprisingly 34%. My opinion would run with large diameter fast expanding rather than the faster fps. Yes that is a bass ackwards way of saying how do you improve on the time proven 45acp. A little snubby in 44 spl would sound fairly good to also. A double action wheel gun will almost never fail to function.
Just was diggin though some back issues of guns & ammo and found an interesting article on this subject. They are saying that the 40s&w is #1 357 mag #2. Why this is? The ideal stopper round dies in the target, therefore expending every ounce of energy, the 40 and 357 both do this very well. The reason this intrests me is because of the relatively high number voting for the 44 mag. OVER penetration is the enemy because over penetration does not transfer all of the available energy to the target. This is why they are saying the 44 mag is a great hunting cartridge, heavier game requires deeper penetration.
No one here in this forum can EXPERTLY answer that question.
Even if your are a peace officer most have never had to shoot at a man more than once or twice and that in NO way make them an expert.
I think trying to pick the perfect man stopper is just idle talk. Buying a firearm for the EXPRESS reason of killing a man or intruder only fuels the fires burning in the hearts of liberals.
That said a 12 gauge sawed off shot gun would do nicely
Glock - I am sure that what you are saying is true. I am no expert, but my instincts tell me that if I have ONLY one shot, go with maximum horsepower. If there was a 50 cal I would go with that, if there was a 6 inch cannon, then that would get my vote - pass through be darned. That being said, this is all academic. A realistic choice is the one that allows quick follow up shots and the more the better.
Well, on a self-defense note, The 45 ACP was designed to stop a man in full field gear from stabbing a bayonet into your chest. The 40 S&W was designed to match the performance of the 45 ACP. Both will STOP a man. The 357 and other magnum calibers will kill more effectively but they will go through so fast that a man at a full run may not stop.
If you really want to stop a man in his tracks an eight inch cannon will do the trick every time (properly loaded of course)
I have taken care of a bunch of people shot with handguns. I will say the best choice of gun to stop someone is the closest one handy. Placement is everything. I have seen a .45 ball stopped and left in a knee and I have seen .22's go clean thru heads. Almost all of the 32 and .25 slugs don't expand no matter what they hit. Most people seem to initially survive multiple well placed (ie-chest) 9mm and smaller rounds only to die later. Those shot with what I term "dynamic" rounds such as .40 and larger to include .357 have very extensive soft tissue and bone damage. I haven't seen as many people shot with these, though, because my guess is they died on scene.
I'm no expert either. But short of taking out the Central Nevrous System, there are no 100% one shot stoppers. How an individual reacts to a bullet strike on his person is dependent on a number of known variables and a lot more unknown. We had a deputy that took three .25s in the vest at arms length just a few weeks ago. He hit the ground like a sack of potatoes. He just managed to crawl back to the jeep, totally convinced he was dying. When he found out the bullets stopped in the vest he make a remakable recovery. Went from down and out to up and very, very angry!
Our swat team served a "No Knock" warrant and were met with gunfire. The suspect took nine center mass hits and kept on fighting till be bled out. With all that said, if you have to shoot-----SHOOT UM TO THE GROUND!! The larger the would channel the faster they bleed out though, which makes a good argument for a .45.
The legend of the 45 ACP is based (in my opinon) on the 1904 Thompson-LaGarde Report presented to General William Crozier.
The Analysis was based upon test firings of 9mm Luger, Colt 38 Model 1903 Army revolver, Colt 38 Military Model 1902 Semi-Automatic pistols, Colt 45 New Service Revolvers, Colt 455 new Servive Revolver, and Colt 476 New Service revolver. The tests occurred prior to and did not use 45 ACP.
For comparison the winchester website lists the following information:
9mm 115 gr Super X Silver tip 1225 fps 383 ft/lbs
38 Special158 g LSWC SuperX 755 fps 200 gt/lbs
357 mag 158 JHP SuperX 1235 fps 535 ft/lbs
45ACP 185 SuperX J-Silver tip HP 1000 fps 411 ft/lbs
45 ACP 230 gr Supreme 880 fts 396 ft/lbs
Therfore the legend of 45 ACP stopping power is based heavily upon the 45 Colt revolver cartridge. The test involved shooting into human cadavers and living animals.
The conclusions were that "...the effectiveness of weapons of the pistol or revolver class increase with cailber rather than with the velocity. .... The stoping power and shock effects increased, as already stated, with the sectional areas of the bullets used."
It is important to understand what the report meant by "shock effect." The following is for the 9mm in cadavers...."The shock effects were not perceptible when soft parts alone were hit and scarely perceptile when joint ends of bones were traversed. When the middle of the shaft of the long bones was struck, the shock effect was equal to that of the 45 caliber Colt's Revolver with blunt-pointed bullet, and is consequently rated at 80."
They determined that a standard 9mm and 38 Special are no match to a 45 Long Colt or 455 Webly when it comes to stopping power. I can understand that.
My conclusion is that I am very comfortable with my 357 Mag, expecially if I use heavy bullets at +P high velocity. I think the test also confirms the idea of very heavy bullets being better performing than lighter bullets as much as it says that bigger caliber is better.
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