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I have a friend who is looking for the most accurate ML rifle he can get his hands on. He wants it for his farm where long shots tend to be the norm. I've got an MK-85 that shoots great out to 100 yards. I purchased it new in '88, 20" SS Walthers barrel with a Timney trigger and synthetic stock. I've taken many deer and a bear with it no misses no problems but all taken inside 75 yards. He's looking for more.

I know mine is not the top of the line but what's out there for a guy who doesn't mind spending $1+ for a ML rifle?. I do'nt think he's looking for something custom. He loves his Weatherby accumark in 30-378.

Thanks in advance.
 

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What's the most accurate out of the box ML

I think what johnt's trying to say, is there is no particular rifle "out of the box" that is going to be the most accurate. Like any rifle you have to find a load and powder, and in the case of a muzzle loader, a lube or patch that it takes a shine to. Generally speaking you get what ya pay for. My wife got me an inexpensive Hawkins replica .54 cal. over 10 years ago for my birthday, that I had literally thought was a wall hanger as it didn't shoot worth a darn, with what I was feeding it. After a little load and powder variation, it's pretty durn accurate now, but I'm sure there are a lot more accurate ones out there. I just got a TC Scout rifle in .50 (discontinued, but still available) that as far as my big bore smoke poles, is probably the most accurate, and it's an inline. I just ordered a Gonic barrel for my TC Contender, which is a custom barrel and I'm sure it's going to take some "load development" to get the peak performance out of it. So ya see it aint all that easy determining which out of the box rifle is the most accurate. Generally the longer barrels will burn the powder a bit better, and give more consistent velocities, which can contribute to better accuracy (groups) with the right load, so ya see it's a vicious circle, all boils down to the shooter and the load. RR :D
 

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accurate???

I don't know about "the" most accurate and traditionalists won't like this but my Savage ML-10II, shooting shooting smokeless powder has shot 3 shot groups at 100 yd's under 1". The particular load is: 50 gr. Lil-Gun, MMP sabot, 250 gr. Hornady XTP bullet. Velocity is 2490fps.

Mike C
 

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What's the most accurate out of the box ML

I gotta agree with the folks who say that each rifle has its own "personality", but my Lyman Great Plains (this is the roundball model with a 1:66" twist) .54 percussion started cutting cloverleafs on my first trip to the range, on my first load estimate. Can't ask for much better than that, unless you're one of those guys that can't stand it unless something goes wrong and he has to "tweak" things a little. Of course, 100yd. is pretty much the limit with a round ball; it's still deadly beyond that, but doping the drop gets kinda hairy.
Part of the "secret of my success" is that I use relatively mild loads...I'm trying for accuracy, not power. I've always felt that trying to achieve high velocities with a round ball is a bit like trying to exceed the speed of light in a spaceship; each increment of added velocity costs disproportinally greater amounts of energy until the whole idea becomes absurd.
 

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What's the most accurate out of the box ML

well , you know what all you guys with your new 150 grain ultra wopper stainless steel wonder glass tubed scoped guns can shoot an inch at 100 yards, well boys there are folke out there who will make believeres out of you that they can shoot under an inch at 100 yards without optics and 150 grains of pyro wonder formulated powder pellets(pettets aint that what deer drop?) these guys shoot flintlocks and sidelocked old timy guns.
 

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What's the most accurate out of the box ML

The Encore is accurate. The Knights are very accurate. I agree with the post about the Savage, it is the longest range muzzleloader, if you want to shoot smokeless.
In a non smokeless muzzleloader, the longest range projectile is the saboted .357 from prbullets.com. You can shoot this from a .45 or from a .50. Expensive.
 

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Accurate Long Range ML

Your friend has his work cut out for him. Many love their Encores, Savages,
and Knights (one of these would probably be his best bet), but even with
an accurate smoke pole, there is a lot of work to find the best load/bullet
for long range.

My Encore barrel did wonderful with 180gr XTP's, giving less than one
inch groups @ 100yds. That's great for mid and close range, but the lighter
bullet is just not ballistically adequate for much over 125 yards.

There are several of the Precision Rifle bullets that have wonderful
ballistics for long range (both the .357's and .40's) but there must be
loads worked up for them to be dependably accurate for 200yd shots. I
got a custom 28" Encore barrel for this and was sorely disappointed with
the first few attempts. Neither barrel will shoot ANYTHING accurately with
the powder I wanted to use - H777. After MUCH load development, the
28" barrel finally shot three shot groups with the holes touching each other
at 100yds using 150gr Clear Shot behind a 200gr .40 PR Dead Center
bullet with a Winchester 209 primer.

Moral of story -- right now is not too soon to begin load development
for this fall's deer season if he is planning on dependable long distance
shots.
 

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What's the most accurate out of the box ML

Ive owned the following inlines TC Thunderhawk in .50 cal, Knight Disc .50 cal, Knight MK-85 in.50cal, Knight Master Hunter Disc in .50 cal,and a White Model 98 Elite in .451. The White is the most consistently accurate of the guns Ive owned. Shooting 460 grain conicals made by No Excuses the gun will shoot MOA consistently with different powders. Ive shot 5/8 of an inch 100 meter groups with Pyrodex P. The gun shoots bore sized conicals like you cant believe. I once put nine 385 grain conicals inside 1.75 inches at 100 meters. Ive tried conicals with my other guns but not with this sucess. Most White owners will tell you similar results. My Mk-85 is probably second in the accuracy dept.
 

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What's the most accurate out of the box ML

Traditions E bolt 209
100 Gr Pyrodex
240gr XTP Sabots
1/2 MOA @100 yds
I have found this gun to be extremely accurate and reliable. Used it during rifle season instead of slug gun. Took three deer with it last season. Rain and snow don't bother it at all.
Would your friend get the same performance if he had the same setup? Maybe, maybe not. I was lucky in that this was the first load and the first bullet I tried.
 

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What's the most accurate out of the box ML

That is a real hard question to answer. What shoots great for one person may or may be the best rifle for another person. Case in point. Lots of people swear by Knight rifles. I bought a Wolverine and no matter what I tried I couldn't get the accuracy out of it that KNIGHT proclaimed it should have. So I sold it. It's a fine shooting rifle and even went on to kill deer with its new owner with great accuracy. It's just that the rifle didn't fit me.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that no matter what anyone recommends, your friend should try out as many muzzleloaders as he can and see what feels most comfortable to him.
 

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What's the most accurate out of the box ML

Lenartz RDI-50
3-50 gr. Pyrodex pellets
300 gr. Hornady XTP
Black HP Lenartz sabot

Lenartz's accuracy standard is 5 shots in 1 1/2" @ 150 yds. The guns will do it. Go to www.lenartz.com

Tom
 

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What's the most accurate out of the box ML

I'll vote for the White Model 98 Elite Hunter in .451 caliber shooting heavier weight NoExcuses conicals over about 100 grains of Pyrodex P. Should be able to practice to the point that 200 yards is not totally out of the question.

Another rifle worthy of consideration might be the newer Austin & Halleck rifles assembled in Utah. Excellent rifles by all accounts. Encores CAN be superb, they can also be a royal pain.
 

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What's the most accurate out of the box ML

They vary. The only two that were honest "right now" 1" groupers for me were the Encore .50 caliber and two Austin & Halleck 420s.

The Omega shot around 1-1/4, the White 3/4 to 1-1/2. With the White, I suspect bedding the plywood would get it down to "Underclocked acceptable" repeatable groups.

Ruger, Knight, CVA, Winchester, Traditions, Remington-- not even close to the above.
 

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It's the M10 by a bunch

The Savage M10 is the most accurate. I have not read every post on this subject but surely one or more have already posted this. With the Savages diversity of load and solid construction sub 1" three shots groups and sub 1.5" 5 shot groups at 100 yards are not that uncommon.

The fact that you can load to 3500 ft/lbs muzzle engery does not deter that accuracy. The Savage is much maligned by traditionalist and much misunderstood by the general shooting public. But it does what many Savage product have done for a while: shoot accurately and hit hard.
 

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What's the most accurate out of the box ML

Mine was bedded by Colin at the factory and sits in a synthetic stock, so yes - bedding would likely get it into "UC approval" territory. And, it might do better with me pulling the trigger. :-D :)

There is a GREAT deal on a White 98 in .451 posted over at http://www.serveroptions.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=005994

Didn't see it on this board so thought a few of you might be interested. The feller got layed off and is forced to sell to raise moolah.
 

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What's the most accurate out of the box ML

The White M98 Elite in .451 gets my vote as well. Stuff some 460 grain NoExcuses bullets over 70-80 grains of FFFg 777 and you should be in the black in no time. And long shots? With practice these guns will easily do that and have energy to spare.
 
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