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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What purpose does it serve for us to be here? (Earth)
If predestination is true. Why would a knowing God short change himself in this great scheme of things and throw in an unneeded step of the process. There is obviously no need to be here. Nothing to prove. Nothing in our control. Robots if you will.
If predestination is just the figment of some disgruntled church members fantasy. Then why are we here?
 

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my wife and I wanted a child, and by the grace of God, we got one and it's been great.
why did we want one ? someone to love ? someone to love us ? I don't know.

maybe one of those reasons is why God put us here. It's a mystery when he could have made himself a dog and saved all the heartache we've caused him.
 

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BP;
A very easy question to answer, since it is already covered by clear exegesis of the Bible..no "wondering" about it.
Bugeye was on the right track and very close to the answer.
Remember, God used to visit with Adam & Eve almost daily in the garden, .. Then one day God came calling and found Adam hiding from Him.. They have used their 'free will' to allow them to sin !

A) He wants us to glorify him and have fellowship with him. (1 John 1:1-3)

B) He told Moses to build a sanctuary for Him, where He could be near His people (Exodus 25: 8)

C) We find further confirmation of His desire to be with mankind, simply because God became flesh and dwelt among us. (John 1:14) and (1 Tim 3:16)
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Now, a philosophical point...using a human analogy..
Suppose you are a young man with some god-like power..whether by incredible wealth or as a dictator of a country. Now suppose you are looking for a mate..one to have fellowship and share true, unfeigned love with (remember, the church is the "bride of Christ").
You may even want loyal friends to have fellowship with, and who you know are really your friends, not just sycophants, trying to 'draw upon' your power... Would it make more sense to;

1) Refrain from 'playing up' your real power..and find true love and true friends by letting them become your love/friends by their own, uncoersed choice.

...or..

2) Simply use your POWER.... to ORDER them to be your love and/or friend.

... Extrapolating on this thought; this is exactly why God created mankind...and then gave us a free will...so we could each CHOOSE whether we individually, are going to love and trust Him...and be His friend ....
 

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IG, another good post. my daughter lives away from home now, but when I know she's coming to visit, I can't hardly wait till she gets here and we fix her a special supper.
I can imagine God wanting to be with his people like I want to be with my wife and daughter.

I'm complete when they're with me.
 

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We have to remember that God is glorified not only in demonstrating His love but in demonstrating justice. All of God's attributes are in balance and each attribute is used to bring glory.
I would point to Proverbs 16:4 ​​​​​​​​The Lord has made everything for its purpose, ​​​​​​​even the wicked for the day of trouble. ​​​
Romans chapter 9 has to be considered here. Paul teaches a very hard topic in that chapter. I would encourage prayerful reading of that chapter.


I will not disagree that all men choose. However, I am reminded of the verse which states "Many are called but few are chosen".

The ultimate factor that I see is that man's will is in bondage to sin. Man cannot chose to act with a corrupt will. Regeneration must occur so that belief can take place.


In 1 Corinthians 1 Paul states that "the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written,
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”
The question that must be asked is this, how does one get from the point of thinking that the Gospel is "moronic" to knowing in the heart that this message is really the "Power" of God to save us?

This question must be considered in the context of what Paul goes on to say in Chapter 2 of 1 Cor The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

These are difficult teachings. I will agree in a sense that men have free will. However, I can only say this with the understanding that the will of man is corrupt and unable to see God and His grace and righteousness unless what Christ said in John 6 is true. "No man comes to me unless the father draws him" and "No man can come to me unless the father draws him". John laid the foundation for the Sovereignty of God in the salvation of men in John 1: 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. A quick look at the Greek indicates that John is stating that heritage/lineage, Man's intellect, man's prowess or power, non of these things can save a man or bring him to God. Just as our natural parents birth us, God births His children.

Again, these are difficult teachings. I believe that difficulty to be why Paul wrote of the Gospel in 1 Cor 1: 20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

I'm also reminded of Christ looking at a particular group of Pharisees and telling them that they could not go where he would go because they were not of his sheep. They were of their father the devil. This same Christ looked over Jerusalem and wept an mourned that they would not repent.

The Gospel is indeed a mystery and we see through a dark glass.

lc




 

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Yes I agree those who He wants He draws in fact some are drawn, but they resist... Some finally come around but others resist so long, they can no longer be brought into the fold..
Thjey refuse God's beckoning just too long he gives up on them and turns them over to their sins. (Romans 1:21-25)

They had their choice.. and blew it!

"Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done". (Romans 1:28 NIV)
 

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God wanted to have someone to fellowship with so he created Adam. Adam was lonely so God created Eve. God wanted to understand what it was like to be a man so he had Adam sin so he could create a body to live in and we call that body Jesus.
 

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I used to think of the depiction of God in the OT as being so different than the picture that I see of God in the NT the OT picture being of a harsh God.
Now I realize that God hasn't changed and that this God Who Is is consistently the same.

Abraham was chosen by God to be the father of the Physical nation of Israel AND the Spiritual Israel.
Physical Israel was a symbol of Spiritual Israel. This was God's choice.

Upon leaving the desert and entering the Promised Land after the 40 years, God told Israel to destroy the inhabitants.
We read no account of there being given a chance to convert, no missionaries were sent out, God just commanded that they be destroyed.

God had chosen His people then and those who were not His. From what I read in the NT there is no difference in the call.

In John 3 the conversation that Christ had with Nicodemus shows us that there is a mystery of whom the Spirit will work upon.
"The wind5 blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
There is a mystery to the Gospel. We are to preach it faithfully. Only God knows whom he will draw to faith in the Son.

I find a hope in this in that the evidence of God upon our lives changing us, drawing us, causing us to hate the sin that we see within us, these things witness that the Spirit is within us and that we are born of God.
lc
 

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Is it an understanable thought that even though it is by predestination it is by hearing the word.
there is no glory in predestination as someone would think that we think we are special or better. That is just the oppositite of what I think of myownself.
Now I might could cast a stone if I said I thought that someone would think that he was special because it was him that chose. This would be equally wrong.
Blessings
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Swampman said:
God wanted to understand what it was like to be a man
If God introduced every atom into the body of Adam and every function along with every trait...., if he is all powerful and knowing and can make us. How did he not know what being a man was like?
 

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God did not need to know what it was like to be a man. He created man in His (God's) image, just as it says in Geneses. God first created the human body which is a miracle, as a tent to house the soul, which is what God made in his image. God is a spirit, and our bodies are not in his image, but our souls are. God gave man a powerful mind(spirit) so he could know God. God gave man a heart(emotions) so that he could love God, and God gave man a will, so that he could obey God.
God wants us to love Him with all our heart. He created us in his image so we could love Him with all our heart.
God could have created man as a robot, to do his will and have no choice in the matter, but instead he gave us a free will. Which is the right and the responsibility to make important choices for himself. God wants us to to choose to love him and worship him. Man must choose himself whether to follow God or satan, whether he will cherish The Word of God or despise it. God will not force anyone to believe his word or love Him. Love is not Love if it is coerced. God allows for each and everyone of us which path to follow, but in the end God will judge each who rejects His Kingdom. God created Man for God himself.
We are here on earth for God alone. Not for money, ourselves or for anything or anyone else. God created us for Himself, his pleasure and glory. We have the capacity to know Him, love Him and obey Him forever. It is God's will that we have a deep relationship with Him for eternity. Its the reason He created us in his Image.
 

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Hebrews makes the statement that Christ became man that He might experience temptation and that we have a better sacrifice than the blood of bulls and goats as Christ stands knowing/understanding/experiencing temptations.
There is no sin in God--God did not create sin--it is foreign to Him---He is perfect and without sin.
Let's look at this closer. The blood of bulls and goats did not relieve/forgive sin---otherwise there is no need for the Christ. No one was saved under the Laws of sin and death---they WERE put aside by faith into Abrahams Bosom until the perfect sacrifice-Christ-was completed--and--HE led captive, captives.
Christ stands always as a priest. This priest, however; Can forgive sins as Christ is God.
Christ understands our weakness and can have mercy and compassion. Being fully God, He can also forgive.
Blessings
 

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Swampy says;
" God wanted to understand what it was like to be a man so he had Adam sin so he could create a body to live in and we call that body Jesus".
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Briarpatch beat me to it;
God is Omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient... Do you think God fails on the omniscient portion, Swampy ?
 

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ironglow said:
Swampy says;
" God wanted to understand what it was like to be a man so he had Adam sin so he could create a body to live in and we call that body Jesus".
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Briarpatch beat me to it;
God is Omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient... Do you think God fails on the omniscient portion, Swampy ?
There's no real point in trying to explain it. You guys aren't interested anyway.
 

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No really, we are interested swampman. Please lets us know the reason why God wanted to see what it was like to be a man. I'm curious as what you have to say about that.
 

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There are 15 posts here.
None so far mentioned the possibility that there may not be a god and our presence here is not related to some deity of any sort.
 

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scatterbrain said:
There are 15 posts here.
None so far mentioned the possibility that there many not be a god and our presence here is not related to some deity of any sort.
Well go ahead. I would like to read your thoughts on why we are here on earth.
 

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DDZ said:
No really, we are interested swampman. Please lets us know the reason why God wanted to see what it was like to be a man. I'm curious as what you have to say about that.
I don't know why he wanted to, I only know that he did. On more than one occasion he created a body and indwelled it. He also wanted to fulfill his seven Old Testament names, and he did that when he created Jesus Christ and indwelled him.
 
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