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I think we should take the occupy protests and riots seriously. It's a symptom of disaffection. Sure, the people who are doing the protesting are generally too unaware to understand what the national problems are, but they are smart enough to realize that there are problems and they are hitting the streets to do something about it. Nevermind that they seem to have the root cause of the problem exactly wrong. Wall Street hasn't changed its culture since it began to exist as a financial center. What has changed is regulation and government interference in markets. It's a trend toward micro-management. It's also a trend away from intelligent regulation. Basically, Wall Street gets most of the regulations they want passed, and the law makers are too stupid to resist.

So in many ways, occupy is very much the same as the tea party movement: Poeple are upset.
 

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The quickest way to bring the current political situation to a head would be to allow the economy to crash. the bankers and politicians won't allow that as long as they can buy it off. The other route is in the upcomeing election. If the Republicans don't offer a real conservative candidate, which they seem to not wish to, The option is to re-elect Obama and force things to get so bad as to cause social turmoil. ear
 

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The least conservative of those who are presently running for President among the Republican hopefulls is a thousand times more conservative than the punk that presently sits in the office, so I don't know what you mean when you say the Republicans don't seem to want to offer a conservative. And besides all of that, it isn't the party that offers anything; it is up to individuals who want to take a shot at it.

I think we already have sufficient social turmoil. What we really need is a new regime in D.C.
 

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Occupy should be taken seriously. You don't have to read much history or many police/corroner's reports to see that those who underestimate what others are capable of do so at their own perril. These people are angry. They can be and might be just enough to tip the apple cart and bring us all to a place where we will wish we were back at the point we now think is unfair.

Writing these people off because the privelaged students with the bitch list about not being able to get work with their $80k theater arts degree are the ones you see on the news is a fool's error.
 

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So, are we supposed to give these protesters whatever it is that they want? I don't think so. What they need is a good dose of reality. If we had a real president, or governor, or even a mayor who still had a pair, they would tell them to grow up and quit expecting to have life handed to them.
 

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No, they need to fight for what they want, just like the blacks did in the civil rights movement. It got ugly then, but America is better for it as a result.

Same thing here. In a lot of ways these people are more purely patriotic than the tea partiers in that they don't mind rioting, civil disobedience, and being persistent. Meanwhile the tea partiers quietly hope for change and wring their hands in their little enclaves. The occupiers are saying a lot of the things that tea partiers are saying, just differently. I don't see how anyone can be sympathetic to the tea party and not be sympathetic to the occupiers.

It's a lot like the riots that eventually ended the viet nam war. By the time the rioting started, the country had pretty much had it with the way the war was conducted. It had, by then, become a war for war's sake rather than a firewall against communism. It took idealistic mobs to crystalize the national sentiment.
 

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I completely disagree. They should be ignored. If you look at the actual numbers of protesters and not how the media is displaying them, you would see that most of them are there for the party/fight, not the agenda. They are a waste of energy to even acknowledge them. They have no ideas, no leadership, no nothing... They are the waste of spacer's who bought into the hope and change crap sold to them by ZerObama and are mad because they didn't get enough of a handout. So let them pout and whine, they will go away eventually just like a bug.
 

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they have not occupied MY property yet!!


too bad those whos property they have occupied


are too stupid or timid to deal with them


should they attempt to stop me from ''watering my grass''
i would see that as an attack and an atempt to kill or seriously injure me
 

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Conan said:
No, they need to fight for what they want, just like the blacks did in the civil rights movement. It got ugly then, but America is better for it as a result.

Same thing here. In a lot of ways these people are more purely patriotic than the tea partiers in that they don't mind rioting, civil disobedience, and being persistent. Meanwhile the tea partiers quietly hope for change and wring their hands in their little enclaves. The occupiers are saying a lot of the things that tea partiers are saying, just differently. I don't see how anyone can be sympathetic to the tea party and not be sympathetic to the occupiers.

It's a lot like the riots that eventually ended the viet nam war. By the time the rioting started, the country had pretty much had it with the way the war was conducted. It had, by then, become a war for war's sake rather than a firewall against communism. It took idealistic mobs to crystalize the national sentiment.
Tea party= smaller government, less spending.
occupiers= bigger government, debt forgiveness, spread the wealth, communism etc.

no comparison.......
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I think those are just symptoms based on point of view. The tea partiers pay the bills are older and have life experience and responsibilities. The occupyers are mostly kids who never had any financial responsibility. Now the kids are finding that they lack opportunities and they blame the banks and the government. They've never had jobs and don't know what working for a living entails, so it seems natural that they would look to paternalistic solutions.

The tea partiers aren't that different in that they lack opportunities or see declining opportunities or predict low opportunities for their kids, and they see obstacles related to government regulation and the favoring of big businesses.

I'm personally inclined to the tea party, but I think I could have a good conversation with an occupyer, even though we may disagree on many points.
 

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This will probably blow a few sock off but here goes. :eek:

They kind of remind me of some of the Hippie Factions. ;D
 

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Old said:
This will probably blow a few sock off but here goes. :eek:

They kind of remind me of some of the Hippie Factions. ;D
;D ;D

all the ows is BS. the news media lately in Ga. has interviewed bunches of plant owners and other business types and there are plenty of jobs. you just have to be willing to work hard.
punks today want their philosophy degree and a cushy job and huge starting salary.
we can't all be philosophers, somebody has to be the cowboy.

************** TRADE SCHOOL ***********************
 

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I was reading an article, one of the protestors under age 25 was whining about a starting job at
9$ an hour and thought it was unfair. 9$ an hour may not be a great wage but it is an entry level position and it's a job. I don't see what the gripe was, of course if you want to start at $100k a year I guess that is a problem.
 

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Every educational institution in the country is under liberal control . We need to get prayer back into the schools ! Teach citizenship , American history , and real world values . How about teaching the building trades in high school ? I know some do but all should . There are so few young people entering the trades that in one more generation they will all be gone . What are all these computer geeks going to do when they are living in caves again ? What happens when the entire infrastructure of this country collapses due to lack of maintainence ? There is no money available or the skilled labor to perform the work needed to keep the roads open , the trains running , the planes flying ! We are in a bad place and we all contributed , mostly through apathy . So I guess the first battle should be taking back the schools . Once that's done we can replant the seeds of common sence , values and morality , with some work ethics thrown in to bind things back together . The zenith of our society was the WWII period when we were all in the same harness and working towards a common goal . We will probably never see that kind of unity again , but it's a noble goal none the less . I taught my son how to work by making him want to , because that's how lifes rewards are attained honestly . My son is a Millionaire at 34 years old , from hard work and inate intelligence . His only degree is from the school of life with a masters in hard knocks !
 

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Shu said:
I was reading an article, one of the protestors under age 25 was whining about a starting job at
9$ an hour and thought it was unfIf air. 9$ an hour may not be a great wage but it is an entry level position and it's a job. I don't see what the gripe was, of course if you want to start at $100k a year I guess that is a problem.
OK, so $9/hr is what $18,000 a year? What sort of home can you live in, in the USA on that? Where exactly.

This is the problem. If US workers are going to have to compete dollar for dollar against the world labor market, the cost of living here has to come down, or we have to start accepting subsistence level slums as a common occurance. Not that we don't have those now in some places.

Back in the early 80's when I was young, had my first job at a major employer of any merit, I lived in an area where home prices were generally out of reach. At that time it seemed, home prices rose faster than inflation, and salaries rose slower than inflation. So I wanted to know, "How do you ever catch up, in order to purchase a home?"

Of course we've just seen what happens when the inflation treadmill reverses... or at least the ability to cash out unrealized gains... no money flowing from the bottom up... collapse.

I don't know who's right or wrong, or what the solution is, but this kind of thing has been going on for generations. I find it hard to believe we can't find a solution to making economic life stabile and plannable. Heck, we've split atoms, been to the moon, mapped the genome, sent some junk over to poke around on Mars... What? We can't find a way to allocate resources that makes for a good life everywhere on this one little planet? Sounds like bunk to me.
 

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flmason said:
Shu said:
I was reading an article, one of the protestors under age 25 was whining about a starting job at
9$ an hour and thought it was unfIf air. 9$ an hour may not be a great wage but it is an entry level position and it's a job. I don't see what the gripe was, of course if you want to start at $100k a year I guess that is a problem.
OK, so $9/hr is what $18,000 a year? What sort of home can you live in, in the USA on that? Where exactly.
Well I'm sure they could get by on that if they had to. Where are they living with no job? Of coarse they would have to eliminate all the goodies that people think they can't live without. Like a shiny new car, cell phone, computer with internet service, cable service with a big screen tv, etc... People in other countries get by on much less. Not that I'm complaining, but I started a job out of high school making 2.50/hr and got married while making that wage. I was also very happy to have that job. This was 35 years ago, but it was a low income job at that time. People can live on low income. Its just that many think they have to have everything to do so.
I guess its so much easer to not take a $9 per hour job, go join a local OWS crowd, and bitch about not having a job.
 

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DDZ said:
flmason said:
Shu said:
I was reading an article, one of the protestors under age 25 was whining about a starting job at
9$ an hour and thought it was unfIf air. 9$ an hour may not be a great wage but it is an entry level position and it's a job. I don't see what the gripe was, of course if you want to start at $100k a year I guess that is a problem.
OK, so $9/hr is what $18,000 a year? What sort of home can you live in, in the USA on that? Where exactly.
Well I'm sure they could get by on that if they had to. Where are they living with no job? Of coarse they would have to eliminate all the goodies that people think they can't live without. Like a shiny new car, cell phone, computer with internet service, cable service with a big screen tv, etc... People in other countries get by on much less. Not that I'm complaining, but I started a job out of high school making 2.50/hr and got married while making that wage. I was also very happy to have that job. This was 35 years ago, but it was a low income job at that time. People can live on low income. Its just that many think they have to have everything to do so.
I guess its so much easer to not take a $9 per hour job, go join a local OWS crowd, and bitch about not having a job.
Well, I see you're missing my point. I'm not particularly on the Occupy or the Tea Bag side. Sure, if all you can get is a $9 job, take it. In the past I made as much as $55/hr. Earlier this year I applied for a $9.75 job. Legitimate work is legitimate work. This isn't about snobbery. It's about equity.

My point is, what in the world kind of standard of living can one really have in the USA anywhere safe for that?

Back when minimum was $2.50/hr. the housing cost to income relationship wasn't so obtuse. (I think my first minimum wage job was around $1.55/hr myself.) Homes went from being a one income proposition to a two income proposition, so we essentially mortgaged the lives of the ladies away in the interim.

My point is, there's got to be a better way to manage things than a constant treadmill to try and keep up.

Well, I see you're missing my point. I'm not particularly on the Occupy or the Tea Bag side. Sure, if all you can get is a $9 job, take it. In the past I made as much as $55/hr. Earlier this year I applied for a $9.75 job. Legitimate work is legitimate work. This isn't about snobbery. It's about equity.

My point is, what in the world kind of standard of living can one really have in the USA anywhere safe for that?

Back when minimum was $2.50/hr. the housing cost to income relationship wasn't so obtuse. (I think my first minimum wage job was around $1.55/hr myself.) Homes went from being a one income proposition to a two income proposition, so we essentially mortgaged the lives of the ladies away in the interim.

My point is, there's got to be a better way to manage things than a constant treadmill to try and keep up.

'tween us I spent 12 years on top of a full time job getting a degree to try to jump the class gap. So if you're trying to call me lazy... you try loosing sleep for a decade. Of course that was decades ago. I was younger.

Since then I've seen the continual gutting of our own economic system. NAFTA, GATT, downsizing, offshoring, etc. If I had to mark the day it really accelerated, it was Oct. 19, 1987. I can still recall the headcount reduction plans being floated in Nov. of the same year.

If I had kids, I'd tell them to get the highest level degree that lets them be an independant professional. E.g. say, Medicine. You can hang your own shingle, or work for "Big Med".

For decades the bar has been being pushed upwards, or perhaps the carrot moved out.

Seems to me life should be about more than being a mouse in a wheel, running until dead, shouldn't it?

Perhaps especially, when the same guys that tanked the economy, still got bailouts and bonuses. And *that's* where any arguments about "personal responsibilty" and "toughing it out" etc. really fall apart.

Do a little research on what the pipeline is into a place like Goldman (Hint: Harvard, Yale, NYU MBA) or CEO-ship (Hint #2: McKinsey or Boston Consulting... that hire from... yup Harvard, Yale, NYU, MBA's...LOL!)... it's very much an insider's club, no? And they are essentially playing poker with everyone else's life.

Now, if you could actually "go off grid" and homestead like in the Westward Expansion or some such, then you might have something, but you can't There's nowhere in the US I'm aware of you can do that today. You'd have to buy the land in the first place, LOL!
 

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trade school costs a fraction of college and their graduates usually end up making very good wages.
all it takes is personal responsibility.
as I grew up, it never occured to me that someone owed me a living.
 

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BUGEYE said:
trade school costs a fraction of college and their graduates usually end up making very good wages.
all it takes is personal responsibility.
as I grew up, it never occured to me that someone owed me a living.
What trades would you say are doing well these days?
 

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flmason said:
BUGEYE said:
trade school costs a fraction of college and their graduates usually end up making very good wages.
all it takes is personal responsibility.
as I grew up, it never occured to me that someone owed me a living.
What trades would you say are doing well these days?
since I have to pay for everything I need done, plumbers are right up there at the top and the local plumbing shops are always looking for journeymen and helpers.
the budweiser plant needs pipefitters, electricians, mechanics etc.
all the big truck shops are begging for diesel mechanics and trailer mechanics.
truck lines need drivers... there's a small town near me that have help wanted on their fast food marquees. if I were able to work, I'd be employed tomorrow.
also, many of our problems began when we wanted that bigger house, that fancier car, that bigger boat. I have a friend with a bass boat that has more electronics than a WWII destroyer.
back in 93 Delta was talking about furloughs, so I asked my wife if we really needed 2400 sq.ft. for the three of us. we bought a small house and started banking money instead of giving it to the finance company.
IT'S ALL ABOUT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY......
 
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