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Today while looking at various hunting/shooting web sites I found some really vile H&R/NEF talk. Some even suggested that these shotguns make better fence posts than shotguns. Why do people have to be so nasty about our choice? Is it because our guns cost 10x less and still go bang every time? Supieriority complex? Are they repressed H&R/NEF lovers? Do they hate American made products? What is it with these people?

I have much more expensive shotguns but don't feel H&R/NEF guns deserve to get pooped on like this. In 15 years of hunting my 10ga pardner has never let me down.

I just don't get it. ???
 

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Just plain and simple ignorance. ::)

Tim
 

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quickdtoo said:
Just plain and simple ignorance. ::)

Tim
That and they are jealous that their slug guns are being outshot by guns costing 1/3 the price...And that is for the Ultra Slugger...I'm not going to even get in to the Handi-Rifle comparisons...
 

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I have solved the problem of H&R/NEF hatred by just not associating with the type of folks that bash them. Elitists in any form are annoying to me. Gun snobs are just as bad as wine snobs. I can appreciate good wine and fine guns and have enjoyed both in my days but I'm certainly more comfortable sitting on the tailgate of my truck, drinking a domestic beer, after a long walk with my good old made in the U.S. of A. Topper. God bless regular folks and single shots.
 

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Amen Markus, That is why I quit visiting another well known shotgun website. I don't care if people want a fine gun, that is their right. But no need to be a snob about it, or to be nasty to others for their choice in shotguns.
 

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maybe it is getting out hunted/shot by someone totin' a hundred dollar gun.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I've caught flack because I at times just let something go when I could have killed it. just didn't want to ruin the quietness. best guess? seeing someone happy with a simple inexpensive gun while they have spent mega dollars and are not happy, misery like to drag every one down to its level
Roy
 

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When I was a kid I used to rabbit hunt with this old guy over his beagles and more than once he or I killed a rabbit with our cheap old farmer guns after two guys with beautiful Browning A5s had missed it.
 

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I must agree. When I was a kid, I went hunting with my Dad and guys from where he worked. We were set up on a line, walking a field hunting rabbits. A rabbit came up and ran forward, left to right. It sounded like a war zone. Everyone (with some fine top end shotguns) missed. My Dad just waited and took one shot with grandpa's old 16 ga, single shot "goose"gun. He got the rabbit. They guys with the high end guns got so mad they went home. They complained that they had all these rounds available and he only had 1.
My Dad's reply: You only need 1 shot, if you know how to shoot.
I still have/use that old weapon. Knowing he used it and I cannot get him back makes it worth more than any top end weapon on the market, but that is another story.

This is why H&R weapons are hated. We know the value of a well placed, accurate shot. We know how to shoot.
 

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My Grandfather left my dad, and my dad left me my A5... It is my favorite gun, but I also have a couple H&Rs that are very cool. I love all my rifles... OK, maybe a love my Marlins a little more... But I hear you on the snobbish attitude at other sites...

Peace,
Chad
 

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Boys ,

Ford or Chevy .... it'll always be like that with some people ,it always has been

Im sure cavemen used to sit around talking about how much better their fire was to the cavemen down the valleys..

I just know what I like and associate with those like minded to my interests, simply said I'm glad I found you bunch...and look forward to many more posts and thoughts..

Regards

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Hmmmm well I will be honest in that I cannot see what it is you get so het up about these NEF/H&R's? it's got nothing to do with their being single shot guns as I have 5 single barrel single shots myself from an Italian .410 folding to an unfired BSA Single X11. The BSA has not been made for about 30 years and has some nice wood on it, semi hammerless with a 30" barrel in 12 bore it will remain unfired as well lets face it I have others to shoot so it just sits in the collection. Also have a 20 bore Baikel and two 12 bore Baikel's, didn't need the 2nd but brought it for the wood as it came from a shop which caught fire to the metal finish is poor cost me all of $40 and it has a nice stock on it unlike the newer ones. None of them cost me more than $60 US and I have used them on the back field to shot Pigeon and Pheasent oh and the odd rat.

I came to the forum looking for slug shooting information and ideas as I am thinking of breaking out the Lee Loadall and acquiring some Brenneke slugs as there may be the oppertunity to chase Wild Boar. Now the mention of the:-

When I was a kid I used to rabbit hunt with this old guy over his beagles and more than once he or I killed a rabbit with our cheap old farmer guns after two guys with beautiful Browning A5s had missed it.
The funny thing is that on Friday I picked up an old A-5 from the gunshop. It's a 1954 vintage gun with 25" barrel and rounder "Prince of Wale" pistol grip and quite nice wood which has the old Browning Automatic embossed Horn butt plate fitted. Had to wait a few weeks for it to be restricted to only hold two cartridges in the magazine, this and a service kit fitted brought the price up to £145 ($290 US) the gun only cost £70 ($140 US) Always wanted one but the prices were always just beyond me however they seem to have lost their value now so I couldn't pass on this one. Have only fired it once and brought down a high flying crow in high wind which show promise.

Now for the life of me I cannot recall seeing any of the shotguns which you are so passionate about on sale in any of the gunshops I have been so have to say that I have never handled one as I have never seen one in the flesh. So you will not find me knocking them as I have no experience of them however I see the same sort of thing with the Russian Baikels and the Czech CZ/Brno's, I just shrug it off and carry on shooting mine and I have a Baikel Model 27 O/U as well. There is aslo an old Cogswell & Harrison non ejector SxS in the cupboard as well, not worth much here as it's a non ejector, I traded the very sweet 12 Bore SxS English ejector gun for a 30-06 P-H 1100 deluxe and some money a few years ago so understand about high quality guns too!

I suppose the reason we don't see the NEF/H&R shotguns here is that we have always had the Spanish, Italian, French, Belgian and Russian single barrels single shots here so the market is somewhat saturated in the lower end. Not much room for another of the same ilk.
 

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Brithunter: I'm encouraged to hear that you still have gunshops in the UK -- most of us over here in the US are under the impression that the shooting sports are a thing of the past in your country.

Some of us are sick and tired of the high-tech invasion in the woods. I am tired of seeing hunters with ATVs, walkie-talkies and cell phones. A few weeks ago at a local shop I saw a rifle that exemplifies this -- a .300 Magnum in stainless steel, with a synthetic stock and adjustable muzzle brake. You could easily kill an elk at 400 meters with that rifle, if your marksmanship is good enough. Our little NEF single-shots represent an opposite attraction: a return to hunting that involves skill and patience, rather than technology and a big bankroll. NEF is attractive to us because they are a domestic maker -- yes, I know, we are a bit nationalistic here in the USA. Your gun industry is almost gone, and ours is suffering, and we hate to see it. NEF's parent company is even selling repeating shotguns made in China, a disappointment to some of us. So we NEF fans are even more motivated to buy the domestically-made NEF single-shots, while they are still around.

Good to hear a voice from the UK here!
 

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Well despite what the media portray shooting in the UK is quite healthy. My local Gunshop is just about to expand as it's outgrown it's present size. A small family run affair it's open from 10:00Am til 8:00PM every day excluding Christmas and Easter Sunday. As for our firearms industry well yes successive governments had destroyed our commercial makers like BSA who succumbed in 1987, Parker_Hale might have survived but their site became more valuable for development so the holding company sold off the company and land. P-H was sold with a small part of it's former factory site, the holding company also at that time owned Smith & Wesson and Modular Industries who brought P-H didn't do their homework properly as they thought they were also getting S&W.

Modular Industries who set up a separate company called Bremmer Arms to make and run P-H they also started reproducing the Springfield 03 on original actions it was this that brought them down after they foolishly it seems exported some of them to the US. Bremmer Arms and P-H was wound up quickly to avoid legal proceeding against they for this illegal act of importing US military rifles into the US. Or that is the story I was told as Bremmer had a custom rifle shop who were supposed to be building me a custom rifle in .257 AI on a Springfield 03 action.

Myself I am more of a traditionalist as I like wood and blue steel and I much prefer the old classic guns, now looking at some of the photos posted on this forum the H&R's those not having thumb-hole stock of course are of of classic lines. As for being Nationalistic I can see nothing wrong with that in fact if we demanded more home produced products China would not be so attractive to the greedy investors and shareholders.

Oh I have only hunted in the US once, back in 2003, my fiends gave me a walkie talkie for safety reasons and so I could call and ask for assistance once I got my deer down. Steven used an ATV to transport it up the hill from the creek side about 1 mile or so to the truck. The farm we were on would not allow the truck down off the road the ATV was only allowed on the farm track to we still had to drag the Buck about 1/4 mile from where I dropped him to the nearest farm track. Modern stuff have their place if used thoughtfully and intelligently.
 

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Well, I am glad to hear that the shooting sports are alive in the UK. And also that you had a successful and enjoyable hunt here in the US. Sad to hear that P-H and others are gone, leaving only the carriage-trade makers like H&H and Purdey. I did see a catalog from Powell & Sons in Birmingham some years back. Apparently they had brought some Spanish workers to England to finish guns that are started in Spain or elsewhere on the Continent. Beautiful guns, but still only for the wealthy.

I will enjoy hunting and target shooting while they are still affordable and available. But, I do feel fairly gloomy about the future of the shooting sports. Costs, population pressure, political and social changes -- all point to American shooting becoming more like the European style, a sport for the well-to-do on restricted, carefully controlled private property. I have a book of Frederic Remington paintings which were created well over a century ago, depicting hunting in the great open spaces of North America, when there was wilderness even in the Eastern part of the continent. I sometimes wish I could step into one of those paintings and never come back.
 

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Hi There,

I will enjoy hunting and target shooting while they are still affordable and available. But, I do feel fairly gloomy about the future of the shooting sports. Costs, population pressure, political and social changes -- all point to American shooting becoming more like the European style, a sport for the well-to-do on restricted, carefully controlled private property. I have a book of Frederic Remington paintings which were created well over a century ago, depicting hunting in the great open spaces of North America, when there was wilderness even in the Eastern part of the continent. I sometimes wish I could step into one of those paintings and never come back.
Ahhhh another misconception I see ??? Although there is no public land hunting except for some foreshore here in the UK it's not the preserve of the well heeled, heck my income is so low as to be non existant and my parents only own 6 acres 1 of which is the garden. We have a 5 acre field out back which is overgrown just now, it was supposed to have been disced to level it after the crop but the farmer who rented it has not done so, we want to plant trees and grass on it.

Anyway there are no deer here although I have seen them about a 1 1/2 miles away but there is not enough tree cover for them here. I have permission to hunt small parcel of land in Sussex but that is now 200 miles away since I moved up here to help my parents so I don't get down there much and without scouting regularly success is difficult plus the farm next door is now idle after being sold so the deer patterns have changed. For deer hunting I book a day or outing (morning or evening), prices vary as do success rates so finding a good guide/gamekeeper is important. My friend who I went with has had to retire due to age and ill health so I am looking for a new one to go with. We became friends over the years I hunted with him and a successful day to me is one spent in good habitat with a knowledgeable person and seeing deer, actually getting a deer is better but it is hunting and not shopping!

Now Pigeon (Dove) shooting is done here as pest control and the species is the Wood Pigeon which is much larger than your dove and is resident all ytear and in facy breeds all year although the "Squabs" (chicks) in winter don't have such a good survival rate, it all depends on the food suppply. Flocks on crops like Rape Seed can be hundreds and the damage they do can be enormous. They are normally shot over decoys from a hide and some sort of cammoflage is useful especially on the hands and face as Pigeons have excellent eyesight and pick up the pale pink of a human face easily and will then veer off. The best decoyng I understand is with a fairly stiff breeze as the bird fly more and better and well fitting shotgun is called for as there are lots of snap shots and the Wood Pigeon can fly at over 40 MPH on a calm day add some wind behind it and they really move never mind the twisting and turning in the air. Oh there is no season on Pigeons so shooting can take place all year although only in severe crop damage situations does shooting normally take place in late spring and summer due to their breeding. Bags of 300 Pigeons shot over decoys is not that uncommon.

Wildfowling has mainly become a club sport as the clubs ahve acquired the foreshore and marsh by lease or purchasing the land. This is not actually a bad thing as our marshes are dangerous for the unwary. I have never been out on the marsh and that is one thing I hope to rectify now I live near the marshes but I need to learn the indentifying flight of the different birds as some are protected and others on the quarry list. I have onyl ever shot Goose and Duck inland never on the foreshore or marsh and the Geese were Canada's and the Duck mallard. We get Mallard on our field after heavier rains as one low spot becomes a pond, the Geese were feeding on the stubble next to my little patch in Sussex and had to fly over it to reach the reservoir where they live and I got three which was plenty.

Rabbiting whether by shooting or Ferretting is another thing with no seasons in law, it only requires permission of the tennant or owner. We had quite a few rabbits on the back field but found a lot dead and dying due to an outbreak of Myximytosis (spelling?) a desease introduced to control Rabbit numbers in the 1950's and keeps coming back. Damned sciencentists :mad: after the harvest the Rabbits ahve to gather together and if the conditions are right it breaks out and can wipe out teh rabbits locally. Sfter soem time more rabbits form other outlying areas filter in to fill the void left by this. Warm damp wheather helps the virus which is spread by fleas biting infected or carrier rabbits then biting healthy uninfected rabbits. Some rabbits recover to become carriers.

Now if you have money to burn you could try dRiven Grouse shooting on the moors of Northern England and Highlands of Scotland now that is Expensive .............. very expensive as can be hunting trophy Red Stags.

I am afraid to say that unless the human population is vastly reduced those days are long gone :'( there are just too many people now and a lot of those deserve the title vermin too :(

Sorry for it being so long but I thought you might be interested.
 

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FEAR

Most hatred comes from fear and ignorance.
The same qualities that attract most of us to these guns seem to scare some hunters away from and ultimately into degrading these guns.

The fear of only having one shot. (what if I miss)
The fear of having to tinker with it. (not knowing how)
The fear of what their fellow hunters will think when they show up with a $100 gun.
The fear of their own hunting skills. (Not being able to get close to game)


The list could go on forever.

The same hunters that label these guns as inadequate or substandard or of lesser quality are simply afraid to admit that they themselves are inadequate or substandard as a hunter and outdoorsman.

There enters the fear and the hatred.


Spanky
 

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Spanky: You said it all. Makes me glad I found this place, where I feel comfortable.

Brithunter: Thank you very much for the description of current hunting in the UK. It's very good to hear that there are still people like you in the "mother country". I am of English descent, and am proud of our language and history. Keep the good traditions alive, and stay in touch.
 

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I walked may a mile around Hanwell the village I lived in, in the early 80s hunting Rabbits with my BSA Airsporter

Mant people Equal how good something works by how much it costs
 

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Many people Equal how good something works by how much it costs
I think you could call this snobbishness or being a snob.

All it actually means is that their gullible and very shallow.

One draw back of a lot of single barrel single shots is not enough weight in them to dampen recoil of stout loads. Some guns like the Greener GP avoided this pitfall and one day I will acquire one when I find one for the right price that is! None of my Single barrel single shot shotguns are chambered for more than the 2 3/4" (70mm) chambers except the 20 bore and .410" which has magnum chamber. I have wondered about trying one of the 12 bores with non toxic for Duck but on enquiring about the price, once I picked myself up off the floor) it's £29 ($58 US) for a box of 25 cartridges! Hmmm come to think of it he onyl said a box so it could possibly be a box of TEN which is even worse. Will have to check more closely next time I am in there.

The reason I wondered about this is that my old Cogswell & Harrison is not suitable for non toxic and has the old 2 1/2" chambers, the Baikel model 27 is not suitable either unless you use Hevi-shot or Bismuth both of which require selling a limb to purchase. However using a Baikel sinlge barrel which cost £20, should the barrel become scored from using non toxic it's not a real loss is it?

I will look into this more seriously now as with the recent rains out field has begun to flood the low patch and we normally get Duck on it and Duck are in season!
 
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