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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a chance to get a Winchester model 70 458win mag for $450 dollars, possibly $400. My only problem with it is that its a push feed and not a CRF. I have heard that the push feeds will jam a lot more than a CRF. The gun has a synthetic stock and is about 85%-90% condition, is this a decent price?
 

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Winchester model 70 458 win mag push feed r

The CRF actions are the action of choice for many hunters of dangerous game, but just because it's CRF doesn't mean it's reliable. It may need some action work to make it reliable. One of the most common causes of bolt action jams is the "short stroke", which is a user error. The shooter doesn't pull the bolt back far enough and the bolt doesn't pick up the next round from the magazine. Another cause is that the feed ramp does not readily accept bullets of a particular shape. This is a case where action work is needed. The advantage of CRF is that it will feed even if the gun is upside down. A push feed may not do this if the bolt is worked too slowly or awkwardly.

Craig Boddington and some others write that this CRF vs. Push Feed isn't as big a deal as some argue it to be, but Boddington rates the CRF as being slightly preferable for safari use.

I think it's significant that Weatherbys are push feed guns, and many of their products are built specifically for hunting big game. Weatherbys are also the guns of choice for many top hunters.

I think that the total package is more important than any individual feature.
 

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Big Bore Firearms

Thebear,
Sounds like a prettygood deal to me if it ain't hammered to death. And i don't think you need to worry about the push feed factor unless you plan to shoot it upside down. Most of the problems was people getting in too big of a hurry and short stroking the bolt. I would like to find one for that price even if it was a little rough. I'd say go for it. Oh by the way you shoukd turn that little MINNER loose so he can grow up. Good luck to ya sir............Joe......

VOTE BUSH>>>>>>>>>FLUSH THE JOHNS
 

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Winchester model 70 458 win mag push feed r

Trust me, from a factory production rifle a PF will be more reliable than a CRF particularly in a caliber like a 458WM, which is straight cased with generally a big round-nosed projectile. The PF will also generally be slicker and faster to cycle. I've had both PF and CRFs and the ones that jam most often are the CRFs. Set up correctly by a good 'smith the CRFs ARE more reliable but the expense to get them there doesn't warrant the work; unless your life truely depends on it.
Cheers...
Con
 

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Winchester model 70 458 win mag push feed r

Joe-

I think I will hold on on that rifle for a while, at least until the price is so good I can't possibly refuse it. I've pretty much decided on the 375H&H over the 458 win. The king in my pic was just a little guy, only 45lbs. Here is what a real big king looks like 62lbs. I'm 6'2" and weight just under 300lbs so that should give you some measure of reference for how big this king truly is. I wish I could claim it for myself but my buddy caught this one on the kenai river, since he was using my bait rig and I was the only one who could lift the net out of the water I think I should get most of the credit :wink: You just gotta love the fishing in alaska.

 

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Winchester model 70 458 win mag push feed r

Con,

Trust me, from a factory production rifle a PF will be more reliable than a CRF particularly in a caliber like a 458WM, which is straight cased with generally a big round-nosed projectile.
I am sorry but for a dangerous game rifle NO PF is reliable. Just ask the guide in Alaska that got mauled by a wounded Brown Bear this last spring because his Sako jammed when he short stroked it? To many times a PF has jammed after being short stroked because the experienced hunter didn't fully pull the bolt back in a time of great stress(and being attacked by an animal does bring on stress). Tell you what, why not take your statement down to the African Hunting board here at Graybeards and see what our resident Professional Hunter, J. J. Hack, has to say about it. Lawdog
:D
 

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Big Bore Firearms

I don't want to get in on a which feed is better crf or pf. I have never had a problem with either, But i do know about having to get off a fast second shot.

Thebear, Well i see you turned the little minner loose and went to fishing.
THAT is a big fish. I would probobly mess my pants if i cought something like that LOL 6"2 and 300lbs we are about the same size, Didn't miss too many meals huh, Save me a place on the river i'll be there in a while.
Good luck BEAR..........Joe..........
 

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Re: Winchester model 70 458 win mag push feed reliability???

Here's some articles on guns, cartridges, etc. for dangerous game hunting...

http://www.african-hunter.com/archives.htm

Bear, please take a minut & have a look at this article on the link below:

http://www.african-hunter.com/it's_all_in_the_claw.htm

The Model 70 Classic has the right kind of action (extractor & ejector) for dangerous game - not the post '64 versions that have proven to be a bad choice for the past 40 years. The failures are documented. IF you are not hunting dangerous game or in BEAR Country, the lower cost rifles might do OK - especially if you can use it slowly like a single shot rifle while you manually control the feed from the magazine.

Here's part of the article from the link above...

It's All In the Claw

"Ganyana

~The hunter fired his first shot at the buffalo, resting his arm against the right hand side of a mopane tree for steadiness. At the shot the buffalo took off and the hunter took a quick pace to the left to keep the buff in view, swinging his rifle around the tree. He brought the rifle hurriedly to his shoulder again as the buff changed his mind about flight, and wheeled to charge. The hunter took his time, made sure of his shot and CLICK!!~

A shot from a fellow hunter felled the already mortally wounded buff, but the young hunter was left gazing at his rifle and babbling to his co-hunter about the misfeed, (for there was no round in the breech) which had caused his acute adrenaline rush. The older hunter said nothing, but walked over to where the youngster was standing and picked up a live round from the dirt near his feet. With a patronising smile the old hunter commented "I saw the round fall out as you were reloading. You were watching the buff like you should have been, but your rifle has one of those new fangled actions. I told you to buy a Mauser". Standing further back I laughed at the expression on the young man's face as he stared at the round his mentor was proffering him. "

There's also three articles on the links below that might help you under stand more fully, why some rifles are a good choice while others are not so good...


http://www.african-hunter.com/Rifle_Choice_4_Dangerous_Game.htm
http://www.african-hunter.com/a_guide_to_rifle_choice_-_part_ii.htm
http://www.african-hunter.com/a_guide_to_rifle_choice_-_part_iii.htm

GOOD LUCK! :D
 

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Sorry - Left This OUT

Sorry, but I left this comparison photo out. IF you need protection from BEARS while fishing and would rather use a shotgun you already own, here's an alternative...



The guys at Dixie Slugs are sorting out a brass shell load for the Spring BEAR season. Right now, they're offering the "X-Terminator" load in a 3" plastic shell which is a 730gr full bore, hard cast lead slug @ 1400fps with only 10,600psi in pressures. More info as well as comparative stopping power on this thread below:

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=15928

and.... http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=15553

There's a video clip on the second link where you can view one of the guys shooting the "Terminator Express" in a Savage 210 Bolt Action...

Below, is a pic of the X-Terminator 12ga load.



[/url]
 

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I have a chance to get a Winchester model 70 458win mag for $450 dollars, possibly $400. My only problem with it is that its a push feed and not a CRF. I have heard that the push feeds will jam a lot more than a CRF. The gun has a synthetic stock and is about 85%-90% condition, is this a decent price?
 

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hello thebear78,
are you going to buy the push feed model 70. if you dont do think that i mighjt have a chance at it. ive been looking for one for a long time. i would appreciate your reply. htank you thebear 78
 

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hello thebear78,
are you going to buy the push feed model 70. if you dont do think that i mighjt have a chance at it. ive been looking for one for a long time. i would appreciate your reply. htank you thebear 78
Hello, and welcome to GBO. If you look at the beginning of the paragraph, it will show the date of the posting. You're asking about a rifle that was for sale 17 years ago. Just a heads up, Doug
 

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Winchester model 70 458 win mag push feed r

Con,



I am sorry but for a dangerous game rifle NO PF is reliable. Just ask the guide in Alaska that got mauled by a wounded Brown Bear this last spring because his Sako jammed when he short stroked it? To many times a PF has jammed after being short stroked because the experienced hunter didn't fully pull the bolt back in a time of great stress(and being attacked by an animal does bring on stress). Tell you what, why not take your statement down to the African Hunting board here at Graybeards and see what our resident Professional Hunter, J. J. Hack, has to say about it. Lawdog
:D
Well ive shot both most of my life and never had a push feed fail me. If you do its operator error not gun design. I also have a real good friend that has gone to africa 11 times. He take all the big ones. Even two elephant. By the way he lives to shoot and KNOWS guns. First few trips he took differnent rifles. His two elephants? A ruger #1 in 458. After those first few hunts he settle in on a gun he thinks just kills way out of porportion to its size and thats the 416 rem and out of a model 700. what you see with reports is people cant wait to blame a death or injury on a control round fed gun. Its easier then saying you were incompetant. There have been LOTS of hunters killed while using control round fed guns. Probably more then push feed because back in the day we about had a mauser or nothing. Mostly what this control round vs push feed arguement is is something people that have never even shot a big gun or a dangerous animal that want to look gun savoy on the internet. Thouseand of animals have been harvested in africa and alaska with push feed rifles. To me its about like the BS with remington triggers and thats what it is bs. I can make any trigger unsafe. Ive owned at least 50 700s through the years and never had a single one of them go bang when my finger wasnt on the trigger. What you get is idiots that pull the trigger when there not suppose to and want somthing to blame for there stupidity and the typical internet expert that thinks bashing the top dog makes him look more intellegent. 99 precent of the time using someone elses experience not there own. Me I havent killed anything dangerous. But would be my life ive killed more big game then anyone else here. Im talking deer bear pigs ect. I kill on average 50 deer a year. Ive used every brand of production gun. Probably more 700s and 70s and 77s and have never had a gun not feed a round or short stroked or had a round fall out of my gun. Bottom line is if the poster doesnt want that 458 for 450 bucks PLEASE contact me because my wallet would come out so fast it would probably catch on fire.
 

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Hello, and welcome to GBO. If you look at the beginning of the paragraph, it will show the date of the posting. You're asking about a rifle that was for sale 17 years ago. Just a heads up, Doug
did see that till after i posted. Wonder if lawdog dared to take a push feed gun hunting whitetail and got gored. 😂
 
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Never had a push feed jam, only a short shuck problem once and it was with a control feed rifle. The 458 case is not a bottleneck case, I don't think, so it should feed very easily. Load your magazine so that the belt of each cartridge is ahead of the cartridge below it. I will probably have a three-shell magazine capacity.
 
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