Sorry bout that Mikey but screen names or user names are first come first served and only one can use any given name. Better register and confirm that new name as yours or someone else can do so and then it will be theirs. :idea:
Just make sure that when you reply or post something, always end it with the good ole saying "This be Mikey" and everyone who has ever read your previous posts will know who it truly is. Uh-oh, hope he doesn't steal your finishing line also! :music:
Hey there Orig. Mikey,
Damn, Mikey....is nothin' sacred anymore? I know there's another MikeyII, but you gotta get yer name back man. Come on GB!!!! I know it's only computer programin' but a man's name is everything.
Matte Finish............Is that when they bead/sand blast the barrel and receiver and paint it (not really paint...but somethin' to prevent rust and give it color)? Give me the beautiful old gorgous shinny rust bluing any day. Same thing 'bout them synthetic stocks replacing real wood....yuck!
Just like them new boats made outa fiberglass and shinny gelcoat. If GOD had meant Man to build non-wood boats he would a made fiberglass trees! :?
Had a few in the featherweights with the claw extractors in 30-06 and 270. Found the actions far smoother than the Sako rifles, those to me were "bindy"
Of all of them, then and especially now, first thing you do right after you get it out of the box is open the floorplate and take up on the bedding screws. I mean crank em down. Most I've seen come out of the box with the screws LOOSE! You don't address that right from the start you'll be chasing groups all over the paper. And, they may be more like patterns than groups :wink:
I go as far as to put slippage marks on the screws with red nail polish. Just a dab at the outside of the screw head will tell you if they loosen up.
Now comes the fun, try and close the floorplate. I've seen some off as much as a quarter inch. Get out the files and start filing. Only way I know how to do it short of machining the plate.
Now for the good news, that puppy will shoot! Yet to have one that wouldn't go under an inch with a good load, some even with factory stuff, Federal in particular.
Winchester, as well as Browning's quality has gone South IMO. Would I run out and buy a Winchester? Not in a hurry. But then I say that of Browning too as I've seen their quality dwindle. Again, both are now owned by a foriegn country.
How bad has it gotten you ask? Well, I bought the wife a high grade BAR a couple a years ago. The butt plate does not match the stock by a good quarter inch, and that's on a high grade!
Had a Winchester Timber Carbine a few years back, sold it, wanted another. So I plunked down the froggies and ordered one. The barrel band shows a 16th of daylight between it and the barrel. Gee, that's close. Is the band a functional part of the rifle, or is it just there for ornament? Can't be holding much in place with that much space between the metal.
Now should you decide to throw a scope on the lovely Timber Carbine, you best be planning on using some awfully high rings, since if you attempt to use the hammer spur you'll break your knuckles when you try to lever the gun. They seemed to have drilled the hole in the hammer to the frame side in favor whereas it should have been to the other side. In any event, it don't work. You can grind some off the bottom side of the cylindercal hammer spur and get it to function, but is that required with a new Winchester purchase as responsibility to the new owner?
Now if you decide to shoot the Timber Carbine, like say in excess of 20 rounds, you'll notice that the forearm slides forward! Another neat feature. If you attempt to tighten down on the band screw you'll crack the forearm.
Remington is in there with these two also. We just had a hunter killed up in VT not long ago. Seems like the guide pulled up to check on a hunter with another riding in back of him. They exchanged
What did ya sees" and started to take off. The hunter on the ATV had a 7mm mag Rem 700. It went off and Killed the other hunter. After the fact, witnesses reported that the rifle was malfunctioning all day previous. Gun does that to me but once.
I now own two Remington pumps in 28 ga. The first one is the Express jobbie, dull plain Jane stock, parkerized metal, cast trigger group. It was cheap money but it's a good gun. The bore of that barrel shines like it was chromed and there is not a tool mark to be seen the entire barrel. The following year I ordered up a 870 Wingmaster in 28 ga, the fancy one, like they used to be as standard, and now, more than double the price of the express model. Nice wood, good checkering, lovely blueing. Alas, the bore of that barrel looks like it was reamed by Rotorooter! What a hack job. Had anyone in quality even done a visual they'd have thrown that barrel in the dump. But had that happened, well that would have affected the EBIT line on the P&L....SHIP IT!
Maybe I'm too fussy, but I've been around guns all my life. There is a reason why pre 64 Winchesters are STILL in such high demand, regardless of what the gun writers say to the contrary. Newly manufactured Winchesters are NOT what the old ones were, I doubt they ever will be again.
You see, ours has become a country where the coporate profit is the prime directive, not customer satisfaction. As we've seen, they even cut corners on safety to make a buck.
One can still get superb quality and attention to detail from folks like Weatherby, Kimber, Freedom Arms, DAkota, and a host of custom builders. Sad to say, it's at a price that eludes the average man.
We have become all to tolerant in this country. Dodge has been blowing up automatic transmissions in their trucks since the "new" design cab came out. It's rare to have one go 50,000 miles, some let go in as little as half that milage. It's not a secret, it's a well known fact, and yet, we march right down there and buy another Dodge truck. Sure, I've bought em, and loved em....with 5 speed Getrags in em, wouldn't even consider their automatics.
Consumer confidence.....seems we have little of that these days. Any wonder why?
Myself, I think it's time we start telling the business world that we are tired of having our jobs and economy destroyed by moving operations to third world nations in the name of bigger profits for multi billion dollar corporations who somehow manage NOT to pay taxes on the profits while we continue to pay more and get less.
This political correctness and multicultural diversity crap has got to go. Americans are fast becomming a minority in our own country! Gee, does that sound familiar, once there were but the Redman.....
There, I feel better now. Hope I didn't rile to many folks up :wink:
My Winchester Classic SS in 338 shoots Federal Classic 225's into 7/8's holes. Not bad for straight from the factory. I'm not overly impressed with the bottom metal, not a great fit. I wish the CZ 550 American was chambered in 338, I'd have bought it instead. That's the best gun value on the market today. :?
I also own a Winchester M70 Classic Stainless in .338 Win. Mag. Except that I shoot PMC 225 grain Barnes-X bullets (but they also group 1" at 100 yards too!) The only thing that I have done to the rifle is a trigger jobn with the trigger pull of 3 lbs, and I have also had the barrel recrowned. Other than that, its a factory gun and shoots great. I never had any problems with feeding, cycling, or ejecting.
Just completed the Win.Mod.70 vs. Rem. 700 vs. Ruger MKII vs. Browning A-Bolt vs. Savage for my new rifle.
I used accuracy as my highest criteria, followed by feel (easy to get on game and feel of mechanism), looks (want to be proud of my girl) and price. Since I down own one of each I had to rely on others for accuracy reports. When in doubt I call it even and rely upon feel and looks...like most guys. Winchester Mod 70 Featherweight-- bolt felt like my rough around the edges Savage bolt action... which isn't good. Good feel to shoulder and so so looks due to cheap looking bolt. Even the jeweling of the bolt has gone down hill. Savage -- Shoots straight but nothing to brag about in the looks and feel department. I have a Savage 7mmRemMag and needed something pretty to hang on my arm. Ruger MKII - felt good but couldn't find my caliber (7mm-08). Kinda plain Jane but I like her/it too. Browning A-Bolt - solid feel but didn't care for bolt shape and syn. stocks at my price point. Don't know about accuracy and price is a tad higher. Rem. 700 Custom -- Good looking gun and best feel of the models above. I wasn't impressed with reports of poor service found on this site. Despite those reports I like the look and feel of the 700 Custom second only to the Tikka. Tikka WH Deluxe -- Bought it for accuracy, looks and feel. Accuracy is guaranteed out of box. The Deluxe looks like a high end rifle and I will be proud to bring her to Elk Camp 2003. Unfortunately, I couldn't find the screaming deals others have found. It seems that 7mm-08 is almost sold out in the USA thanks to Zachary and this website. Only two dealers had 7mm-08 and the price was ~$600.
I found my M70 stainless classic's action screws wanted to back out. I found the cure from a bottle of blue loctite. The rifle out shoots me. I wish I could get consistant. I kept the target with the 3/8" three shot group from earlier this year. Dave
Dave, I know what you mean. Granted, I didn't have problems with the screws, per se, but I did have custom work done on my M70 in .375H&H. I already wrote a post under "Guys, you aint gonna believe this" so I won't repeat it here, but suffice it to say that after that custom work my M70 now shoots phenomenal groups. :grin:
I just bought a NIB Model 70 last week and took it out to sight it in on Saturday. It made a "different" sound when I fired it and kind of felt like someone slapped my hand on the forearm. When I tried to eject the round it would not eject. I tried to run a live round thru it with the same result. I immediately went back to the dealer with it and after a thorough examination, it was discovered that Winchester had shipped the rifle with the wrong bolt! I asked for nd recieved a refund and bought a Remington to replace it. If Winchester's quality control isn't any better than that, don't think I'll be buying any more of 'em.
I've got a model 70 in 243 and I've taken more deer with it than any other rifle. Course I've hunted with the little gun a bunch more than any other but the 243 seems to knock them down and they just don't get up. I hit a nice 8-pointer at 300yds in the neck in a wind storm and he went down like he was pole axed. I had the crosshairs on the lung area and wind drifted it to the neck I guess. Anyway, I've hit deer with a 7MMmag and they got up and ran off so what can I say!
I have M70 7mm mag and 30-06. They are as bought, I'm considering trigger and bedding, they shoot 1 to 1 1/2" inch groups, but rarely better. I like the looks and the feel of the guns.
I do not like the three stage safety or it's position. I have had that safety get kicked off more than once in brush or on a hike. I would much rather have the tang safety like on my browning A-bolt.
The 06 I have to get to a smith as well. It has a problem. It picks up rounds out of the left hand side of the tray and from that side the bullet jams going into the chamber. The angle of the round is way to steep and comes to a complete halt. It worked (or didn't) this way right out of the box. I hear more complaints from friends than applauds re new M70 rifles.
I've had No1 Rugers and old M77's that simply wouldn't shoot,, a winchester Supergrade that didn't have the SuperGrade legend on the floorplate and Winchester told me they couldn't sell just the floorplate, they only had the trigger guard floorplate assembly!! A Remington with no crown at the muzzel and no ejector spring. I had a S&W stainless J-frame that crystallized the hammer pivot pin. They said it wasn't warrnteed, that it was normal wear and tear?? BULL!! Then they charged $130 to replace a $3 part, that's right, $3 for the part and $95 to polish the piece. They didn't even clean the weapon after polishing it. It was full of grit.... After going rounds and round with Winchester their customer service people were repositioned(I was told) and their task done by Browning people. Better service but still. The lady told me the floorplate was only available as an assembly but she sent the entire assembly.. Unfortunately it also didn't have the SuperGrade legend on the floorplate!!! The last Ruger
Mk-II I had apart had a safety that was very diffcult. It should have been,, it was full of gunk... After a good cleaning with solvent I lubed it and re-assembled the safety. It would not stay where it was placed!!! A vigorous shake would take the rifle off safe and back on!! The bulk of the rifle was left as cast, including the majority of the safety parts. I cleaned up the angles and stiffened the spring. The safety lever then stayed put.. The CZ's are a bright spot.. Priced within reach and with excellant quality they are a goal other makers might try to emulate. The Sakos I've good about but are quite pricey.. The matte finishes on rifles and shotguns DOES NOT hold up well.. in it's factory guise. If bead blasted and hot blued it works ok but they factory finish is soft and easily work away.. The reason for it's existance is the cheapness of it's application!!! As to customer service...S&W--does not exist, Winchester-Sucks out loud, (they were a great group once upon a time.)Ruger- will do what they can but it often costs more to return the weapon than the part costs? Remington--They are a joke. They are quite willing to fix their problems but it costs $20 bucks to return a rifle for them to install a 50 cent spring!! CZ-I've never had a call to speak with them but have heard that they are as accomadating as they can be.. Savage- They are what they are. They work well and I've not had to speak with their service departments.. They shoot extremely well but are a bit homely. They've been making the same basic 110 action(with minor distinctions) for many years.
I have two Winchester Model 70 rifles in .375H&H. One is the Classic Express (wood and blued) and the other the SS standard version. Both have fired over a thousand rounds of full powered loads and give good accuracy with complete reliability. I did glass bed the wood stocked Classic, and the stainless synthetic came from the factory with loose screws. A shooting buddy purchased a Win Mod 70 in .30-06 3 years ago, and his is a tale of woe. Misaligned iron sights, a factory scope mounting screw hole with no thread. Winchester did align the sights, and they corrected the hole with his needing an offsize screw! Additionally, one of the sling swivel mounts parted company with the rifle last year. I bought my rifles in 1994 and 1995, so perhaps the new Winchester is not the same as the old.
I've got a Winchester Super Grade in .338cal. that shoots under 1" groups. Never had any trouble, gun was bought in mid 90's. This one is a pleasure to shoot, for me the stock design is perfect. Can shoot 1 to 2 boxes of ammo and not have serious sore shoulder unlike my Remington 700 in .270cal.
I like the looks of the new Winchester Shadow rifles, I'm considering getting one in 270cal., the price is competitive with other brands out there.
Most of the gun companies make good products, they all have lemons just like the car companies. You gotta decide what "YOU" want after reading these posts or talking to your friends, cause you will be the one buying it. If you can, find someone at the range, ask if you can shoot their Winchester to get a feel of one.
I bought my win in 1998 and the only fault i have is with the flimsy synthetic stock. i took it off and free floated the barrel and it shot much better, but still moves around a bit. It will usually shoot less than 1 inch and sometimes down to 3/8 with hornady light mags ssts. i think i am going to change the stock to a laminated one.
I had a a-bolt and think the safety on the win is much safer, the safety on the browning would get knocked off regularly.
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