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My Daddy always said "It's a wise man who learns from the experience of others." :-\ He also said I always had to learn things the hard way which is probably why I got my butt beat real regular! ::)

Anyway Bri, aka CW Longshot, and others have repeatedly said don't use handgun caliber hollow points on deer. I always agreed with that. But I did it anyway last week. :( You see, I couldn't find any 158 gr., .357 cal. XTP FP's... only HP's... so I figured ... well, you know... :-[

These bullets are amazingly accurate and should be clocking around 1700 fps with an upper load of H110 outa my 16 inch Rossi M92; so I decided to hunt with them. This last week one of our little South Jawja bucks stopped broadside from me at about 15 yards. I originally put the crosshairs tight behind his shoulder but then, nervous about penetration, put the bullet in his neck. He dropped at the shot, kicked for a bit longer then I liked, then expired. I found the bullet went a little lower then I wanted, but severed the major blood vessels and the windpipe, but it did not exit! :eek: I looked for it in the mutilated neck meat in the area but didn't find it.

Happy ending, but this was a known lesson that was ignored and then reinforced...
 

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Ha, Richard, your right recovery is the important part followed by a humane kill.

Some folks just learn a bit slower, that's all. :) Glad to see you come around. :)

CW
 

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AtlLaw,

My 16" Rossi loves the same bullet at the same speed, I've had three touching at 50yds with the peep sight. Thanks for sharing the experience with the HP version, it makes be feel better about sticking with my 180gr WFN for another year. Midway does have the FP in stock at the moment, FYI. I'm thinking about getting some for next year and seeing how the performance compares to the big cast bullet.

Thanks,
Terry
 

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terryrudd said:
Midway does have the FP in stock at the moment, FYI.

Thanks Terry! I saw they had them in stock yesterday and will order some this week. If there is a better deer bullet for the 357 Mag (not Max! ;) ) in a lever gun I'd like to know about it! ;D
 

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I used the .45 250 XTP from a Marlin 20" 1894 CB at 75yds on a nice mule deer buck years back. I shot him at the top of the shoulders/spine junction. He dropped, kicked twice. Bullet had broken the spine but was shattered. A shot broadside through the ribs would still be fine. I think the hollow pints are best kept for through the rib shots, especially from a carbine.
 

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AtlLaw said:
terryrudd said:
Midway does have the FP in stock at the moment, FYI.
Thanks Terry! If there is a better deer bullet for the 357 Mag (not Max! ;) ) in a lever gun I'd like to know about it! ;D
If you can find any Richard, Speer made a 170 Gold Dot Soft Point. This a GREAT bullet too!! It also has a WFN profile! Being a Gold Dot, you can rely on its ability to preform!



RevJim said:
I used the .45 250 XTP from a Marlin 20" 1894 CB at 75yds on a nice mule deer buck years back. I shot him at the top of the shoulders/spine junction. He dropped, kicked twice. Bullet had broken the spine but was shattered. A shot broadside through the ribs would still be fine. I think the hollow pints are best kept for through the rib shots, especially from a carbine.
The 45 "Colt" bullets are even worse than others when looking at hollow points on game. The 45 Colt is a very lo pressure round, many times its bullets are jacketed pure lead. Choosing a jacketed bullet for the long colt requires some background checking! That is if you intend on loading it even a little hotter then factory. The 45 Colt can really see some velocity improvments precentage wise most than most other handgun rounds.

I learned early (Long time ago) all the 250HP bullets will come apart on game at Ruger level loadings. Remember those are still from a vented revolver barrel... your gonna gain up to 500fps (Some loads)on top of those numbers loading them in a carbine.

I find all the 300's avalible work well up to 1600 fps. Even a lil more with some. Speers 300 SP is a bit fragile any faster. (Very thin jackets) Sierras is good for 1800 at least. (Thicker jackets, but are usually too long for some cylinders and actions) Hornady 300 REG XTP is also good to 17-1800 fps. (Two crimp grooves makes this a better bullet!) My Cassull will begin to see the REG XTP bullets limitations. I now use the MAG version.

CW
 

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BBF said:
I can't write of any other than the 240 gr XTE 44 cal and that bullet had no problems from a Handi going through a deer diagonally.

What speed were you pushing this, and at what distance did you hit your target? I stopped using the 240gr. XTP in a .444 Marlin because I hit three deer in three years at less than 20yrds pushing that bullet w/ a muzzle velocity of 1900 FPS and was getting minimal penetration. This year I have a load worked up for the 265 FTX and we will see what it does at close range. Here's a pic of what I was seeing when the processor was skinning my deer in 2013. First pic, you can see entrance wound behind the shoulder, second pic just behind the skin there was a hole you could stick your fist in and all we recovered was the jacket in the opposite shoulder. I ended up putting a second shot in this deer at 75-80yrds away running almost straight away and he crumpled at the shot. The second bullet entered behind the rib cage and exited from the base of the neck.





 

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AtlLaw said:
My Daddy always said "It's a wise man who learns from the experience of others." :-\ He also said I always had to learn things the hard way which is probably why I got my butt beat real regular! ::)

Anyway Bri, aka CW Longshot, and others have repeatedly said don't use handgun caliber hollow points on deer. I always agreed with that. But I did it anyway last week. :( You see, I couldn't find any 158 gr., .357 cal. XTP FP's... only HP's... so I figured ... well, you know... :-[

These bullets are amazingly accurate and should be clocking around 1700 fps with an upper load of H110 outa my 16 inch Rossi M92; so I decided to hunt with them. This last week one of our little South Jawja bucks stopped broadside from me at about 15 yards. I originally put the crosshairs tight behind his shoulder but then, nervous about penetration, put the bullet in his neck. He dropped at the shot, kicked for a bit longer then I liked, then expired. I found the bullet went a little lower then I wanted, but severed the major blood vessels and the windpipe, but it did not exit! :eek: I looked for it in the mutilated neck meat in the area but didn't find it.

Happy ending, but this was a known lesson that was ignored and then reinforced...

So, what exactly is your problem with the bullets? You don't think the deer died fast enough? The bullet didn't exit? That the bullet went lower than you wanted?


I've taken 3 ungulates with that bullet including a Black Wildebeest. They all died. I'm not complaining.


I'd use them again any time.
 

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I have seen the exact same problem as gman628 shows with the 44 cal. 240 gr. XTP HP bullet. Three times I have seen small whitetail shot with muzzle loaders with a near maximum load and that bullet fail to penetrate thru the chest, no big bones hit. The deer were recovered but required a long tracking job and the wound were big holes on the side they were shot on and no exit.
I made the mistake of using a Hornady .452 200 gr. XTP HP in a 45 Super. I shot a pronghorn in the chest and it didn't penetrate. The doe eventually laid down and I had to shoot it in the head to end its misery.
after skinning that antelope the entrance hole was big enough to put both oh my hands in but didn't get to the lungs.
I have seen the 44 cal. 240 gr. XTP HP work great when used at approx. 1200 fps but at carbine / muzzleloader velocities they fragment and don't work good.


jedman
 

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I find all the 300's avalible work well up to 1600 fps. Even a lil more with some. Speers 300 SP is a bit fragile any faster. (Very thin jackets) Sierras is good for 1800 at least. (Thicker jackets, but are usually too long for some cylinders and actions) Hornady 300 REG XTP is also good to 17-1800 fps. (Two crimp grooves makes this a better bullet!) My Cassull will begin to see the REG XTP bullets limitations. I now use the MAG version.

CW
[/quote]

I was going to use 300+ Hardcast the next time I hunted with that Marlin. I then got all excited and traded it for a Hawkeye in .257 Roberts....bad trade. Nothing I did to that Hawkeye got my groups below about 2.75", so off it went! Then, Life happened and I now have no leveractions here. I have a couple BB94s in .375 Win and 444. I let my SIL keep them, I never hunt with them anymore. In carbines especially, I agree, one has to really research it and find one designed for higher velocity. Fun guns though!
 

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Grumulkin said:
AtlLaw said:
My Daddy always said "It's a wise man who learns from the experience of others." :-\ He also said I always had to learn things the hard way which is probably why I got my butt beat real regular! ::)

Anyway Bri, aka CW Longshot, and others have repeatedly said don't use handgun caliber hollow points on deer. I always agreed with that. But I did it anyway last week. :( You see, I couldn't find any 158 gr., .357 cal. XTP FP's... only HP's... so I figured ... well, you know... :-[

These bullets are amazingly accurate and should be clocking around 1700 fps with an upper load of H110 outa my 16 inch Rossi M92; so I decided to hunt with them. This last week one of our little South Jawja bucks stopped broadside from me at about 15 yards. I originally put the crosshairs tight behind his shoulder but then, nervous about penetration, put the bullet in his neck. He dropped at the shot, kicked for a bit longer then I liked, then expired. I found the bullet went a little lower then I wanted, but severed the major blood vessels and the windpipe, but it did not exit! :eek: I looked for it in the mutilated neck meat in the area but didn't find it.

Happy ending, but this was a known lesson that was ignored and then reinforced...

So, what exactly is your problem with the bullets? You don't think the deer died fast enough? The bullet didn't exit? That the bullet went lower than you wanted?


I've taken 3 ungulates with that bullet including a Black Wildebeest. They all died. I'm not complaining.


I'd use them again any time.

For me, its allot of blood shot meat (read wasted) and in some situations lost game because of lack of penetration.


For example, the .358 180 SSP has shown me its fragile on bones up close when launched at 2300 fps muzzle. I don't call it bullet failure as over a dozen deer have fallen to it, and none have been lost. But same issue, blood shot meat and no complete thru and thru penetration. (bullet pieces many times exit) I now try to miss the bigger bones with this bullet when the game is close.


I know your a hunter, we see the great pics, you know two holes are better and one when you need to track a animal and as a hunter you realize the waste that blood shot meat is.


(I know you know this...) Hollow pointed hand gun bullets, fired from rifle barrels are almost always impacting game far above recommended velocities. (For those who don't know) The results can be a few possibilities.


1) Explosive expansion in chest cavity and lightning quick kills.
2) Gross over expansion. Resulting in shallow penetration, Horrific wounds and lost game.
3) Lack of penetration on quartering shots with failure to reach vitals.
4) Lack of thru and thru penetration resulting in possible loss of game from diminished blood trails.


#1 can easily become #2 and we all know that m#2 is crap. :)


CW
 

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Haven't posted for awhile...I load the 158gr Hornaday XTP JHP for my 35 Rem. It is a real shooter. Has been for the last 7 years or so. I have never lost a deer with this load.... Longest (measured) kill was at 166 yards with this bullet. Not too shabby. I will be using my 35 Rem in a few days for the up coming deer season here in Wisconsin.
 
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